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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
mynobshamster · 12/08/2009 14:32

oh for goodness sake nybom this thread lost any credibility on the old thread.

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 14:33

oh good, sounds like nybom is ready to explain what terrible disease is caused be ff....

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 14:33

only poor people buy crumpets,butter and philedelphia from the shops ya know[shakes head]

take note curiosity

Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 14:34

More orders and no answers, eh nybom - business as usual!

On a serious note - crumpets and philedelphia sounds rather nice - I often have crumpets with butter and marmite, but I will have to put some philly on the weekly shopping and try this out, curiositykilled.

And I hope you not only milked the cow, churned the butter and made the cheese, but also made the crumpets and packaged the philly properly too!!

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 14:35

whoops up nybom pops again how predictable

ElieRM · 12/08/2009 14:36

nybom- we did ask about chronic illness through ff. you declined to answer. i will ask my hv tomorrow.
myself and at least one other explianed the social theory so its hardly a secret. we also presented a theory as to why the 'undeserving poor' exist. which can be summed up in one word: thatcher.
i also resent being told i am imaginary.

Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 14:36

I am waiting with baited breath to find out too, curiosity. Are my boys about to drop dead or go into a decline that's all my fault?

I'm barely going to be able to eat my lunch for worry!

Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 14:37

Actually Elie - all of you are figments of my diseased imagination. Sad but true. The world is a myth as well. And this chair I'm sitting on ...........OUCH!!

ElieRM · 12/08/2009 14:38
ElieRM · 12/08/2009 14:40
nybom · 12/08/2009 14:40

i decline to answer because you are all just taking the piss. HV have no clue, but good luck anyway.

OP posts:
ElieRM · 12/08/2009 14:44

are you more qualified than a hv? you wre declining to answer long before we startedhaving fun taking the piss. so that's irrelevant.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 14:45

Nybom actually said yesterday that she has no interest in finding out about chronic illnesses that could be prevented through BF and that if 'I' was so concerned that I should do some research myself. curiosity then did do some research as people are genuinley concerned, Thanks for the assumtion Nybom that it was all a big joke. I actually spoke to one of my friends this morning who is a Paedeatrician registrar who said that he was not aware of any specific illnesses that could be prevented solely by BF but that there was plenty of research into why some people believe that BF may be linked to helping prevent some illnesses.

Portofino · 12/08/2009 14:46

If you'd answer the questions mayeb every one will be sensible for a bit......

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 14:46

she can't answer questions cause she hasnt got any answers, she is a attention seeker with no wisdom of the world, i feel sorry for her

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 14:48

Nybom - i don't think you are are declining to answer because you think people are taking the piss. I think you are declining to answer because you simply don't know the answer and you should have thought about being questioned on thischronic illness that you have, that could have been prevented by BF before you said it!

nybom · 12/08/2009 14:49

ElieRM imagine, there was a discussion before you entered. but that's not the point. and actually, yes, i am more qualified as a HV, not that anyone cares.

OP posts:
clemette · 12/08/2009 14:53

I was quite enjoying the hamsters. Now I have to smirk at the claim that her original OP "why are these people called poor when they have dogs and everything" is being dressed up as "I am interested in the social theory as to why people have dogs/false nails/cars/drug habits when they are struggling". The latter question has been repeatedly answered by myself and others in this thread and the last, but as nybom doesn't like the answers she will carry on shouting at us.

Glad to see nybom has added health visitors to the list of people she is better than. Wonder if my HV's PhD in infant nutrition and child development trumps hers in this area?

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 14:54

isn't your qualification a PHd in Sociology? At least that what seems to be suggested by what you say. I don't know much about Sociology but i wouldn't have thought it covered all the stuff needed to know about being a HV or being able to BF etc!

itsalwaysthequietones · 12/08/2009 14:55

nybom - I'm not taking the piss at all. I'm very willing to have a proper conversation with you about your concerns about/interest in people's lifestyle choices. But a proper debate requires both sides responding to the others questions and you seem to be cherry-picking the issues that you respond to.

As for your RL conversations with your poor friend about their ill-informed choices when it comes to their finances: you claim they 'don't know why they do it' so just to clarify, you started this thread in order to see if other people would understand their choices better? It seems like an odd reason to start a thread, after all we've established that you can't judge a book by its cover and therefore we're very unlikely to understand your friends' lifestyle rationale from the few bits of information that you've given us about them - and then be able to apply it to the general "poor" population and develop some sort of social theory about it. I guess I'm finding it hard to believe that your post is motivated by a genuine sense of sociological inquiry.

I don't think you want a real debate about this issue, I suspect that you've already reached your own conclusions and you'll keep ignoring difficult questions and drawing out the thread until you feel sufficient numbers of people validate your viewpoint. If this isn't the case I'm very happy to be proved wrong.

clemette · 12/08/2009 14:55

Ooh - the plot thickens. She is better qualified than all HVs to talk about BF yet decides not to...
We do care - we want you to have some credibility (simply so that I can feel I am debating with a sentient being rather than someone who simply rants).

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 14:56

o.k nybom if that's what you belive my dear.

Portofino · 12/08/2009 14:57

I don't believe the PHD is in Sociology either or she wouldn't need to ask these questions.

karala · 12/08/2009 14:57

Actually Nybom people do care, people care a lot and have been upset by much of what you've had to say. Yet, when you are asked to clarify and/or substantiate some of your claims then you change the subject or argue or refuse. We're not asking for name rank and serial number but we are asking you to justify your claims by either pointing to peer-reviewed research or explaining your claims in a way that goes beyond - 'cos I say so'.

clemette · 12/08/2009 15:02

Ok essay finished. I am now "qualified" to start a thread asking why teenage parents to-be don't access NCT antenatal education ... or I could start a thread entitled "are these kids too thick to know what's good for them?". I wonder which one will get the social scientific response I want...?

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