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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
preciouslillywhite · 12/08/2009 12:00

I think it is absolutely fine for anyone to criticise aspects of a country they live in but don't come from. I'm uncomfortable with this attitude that nybom should just be expected to put up and shut up and be somehow grateful to be here. She's entitled to express her opinions.

BUT I don't think it's ok for anyone well off- whether they originate from this country or not- to criticise and judge those less well off. It's unfair and unkind, and you've made a lot of sweeping generalisations about something you evidently know very little about.

nybom · 12/08/2009 12:01

everythingistaken please follow the thread before you comment, you are raising issues that have already been discussed a dozen times. boring.

OP posts:
nybom · 12/08/2009 12:02

SAHM? i don't know what that is.

OP posts:
josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 12:03

everythingistaken to be fair to Nybom she has already said that she was confused with CB and CTC so i think that argument should come to an end now.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 12:03

SAHM is stay at home mum

nybom · 12/08/2009 12:04

C & P: i am only talking about people i know. the examples i mentioned are friends.

OP posts:
Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 12:05

So you don't like it when you think I am telling you what to do, Nybom, but you have no problem with telling other people what to do??

And if anyone is boring, it is you. Boring, obtuse, unwilling to answer questions or points put to you, rude, offensive and utterly incapable of apologising even when told that you HAVE caused offence!!

nybom · 12/08/2009 12:05

clemette must have missed that. where did you mention it? in that case, appologies to scattykatty.

OP posts:
nybom · 12/08/2009 12:06

stay sunny, girl!

OP posts:
clemette · 12/08/2009 12:09

About two messages before scattykaty.

I am intrigued really. I should be writing an essay but am easily distracted, so notice that you claim your social status to be upper middle class, with social links to the upper classes. I am trying to imagine how you maintain such a wide spectrum of friends, and how you maintain an umcl lifestyle when spending what you do (as outlined very early in the first thread)

Portofino · 12/08/2009 12:11

What do your friends think of your lifestyle? What do you do when you get together?

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 12:18

nybom you are telling me to move on, and this is your second thread on the same thing??

ElieRM · 12/08/2009 12:22

nybom, will there be a third thread? just out of interest. will you keep going til we all apologise and tell you you're right? or what?

ElieRM · 12/08/2009 12:23

stayingsunny- hilariously, her response to your post proves it completely right.

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:25

josie - sorry! must have had pudding in my eyes... or on my fingers... It certainly was meant for juicy! lol

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 12:29

i think nybom is a attention seeker and full of shite! i dont think she is at all higher than upper class, don't even think she is lower class infact i'm not sure what she is apart from strange

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:33

Has anyone seen the pudding I flung at stayingsunnygirl earlier? I'd quite like some

I'm just going to boil some eggs for DC's lunch does that earn me enough points to buy a cake for pudding?

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 12:34

how was your night elieRM? hope dd is o.k now

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:34

Maybe we'll have to cut some of our own fruit... Maybe I could just let the children peel their oranges...

everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 12:35

Defo curiosity

itsalwaysthequietones · 12/08/2009 12:37

OK, I got to about page 18 but I really, really don't have time to read the next 13 pages. Can OP or someone else who has followed the whole thing tell me:

a) what 'different cultural background' is OP from? And yes I do think it's relevant because it's being used as justification for the attitude set out at start of thread
b) what OP's friends (who are cited as being the basis for these views) have said in response to her thoughts - because presumably they will have more insight into their life choices and those of other 'poor people' than the good people of mumsnet have?

Much obliged

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:41

nybom - I'd quite like a response to the point I made earlier:

'By curiositykilled Wed 12-Aug-09 10:00:50 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

nybom - the equivalent argument about cancer would have been that you had caused that person dear to you to have gotten cancer in the first place because of something you did. Don't forget you argued that ff had given you a chronic disease and that was why you were qualified to speak about the subject. THAT is why elie and kemble twins were so upset. I'm that you don't understand that and are trying to use that particular discussion as a way to make people feel sorry for you.

'

which was in response to:

'By nybom Wed 12-Aug-09 09:50:16 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster
stayingsunnywirl

simple: BECAUSE. I. DIDN'T.

they are offended by something that isn't directed to them and isn't about them at all.

i might as well be offended by "cancer" being mentioned in this thread because someone dear to me has died of cancer. but i'm not because i differentiate.

read my posts back. and let them speak for themselves. who are YOU to tell me what to do? '

Can you not see why elie and kemble might've found your posts about your chronic illness upsetting? Can you not see why they might've wanted to know which chronic illness you were implying they would have given their children.

nybom · 12/08/2009 12:43

yes, i'm "going on", as are others (i'm not the only one posting you know...).

ever thought you might actually be mingling my words? have you ever considered why i have so many friends from different walks of life if i'm the kind of person you construct me to be? how is it, that THOSE PEOPLE I ACTUALLY MEAN aren't offended? i have had discussion such as these (and much "worse") in RL and it was never a problem! they might ask me why i buy organic food, i might ask them why they blow their money on beuty products. so what?

as to your questions why i am friends with "poor people" - because we have things in common, like all friends. why should i just be friends with MC? as to what we do? normal stuff - coming over for tea, going to parks, playgrounds... i don't waste any money (but i can't say that though, can i? because if you have money and don't spend it you're "tight") so money is never an issue as we spend the same.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:44
curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 12:49

itsalwaysthequietones - She hasn't answered either of those questions, when we ask her those questions she says we are racist.

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