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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
ElieRM · 12/08/2009 10:51

it would be reasonable to assume, that if you post something contentious (and even if you wren't aware it was contentious first time round, you must've twigged by thread 2) that a debate will ensure.

Tortington · 12/08/2009 10:52

is there a premis to this argument beyond

some people fiddle the state (quell surprise)

and some poeple leave their engine running
( is this or isn't this a good thing ..debate)

?

wtf is your argument nybom?

because if thats the summation of it - its just boring

ElieRM · 12/08/2009 10:52

'bear in mind that this topic encourages posters to give their opinions'
different opinions. a debate. says it at the top.

Tortington · 12/08/2009 10:56

etf are you debating though/?

clemette · 12/08/2009 10:56

Your OP was not "why do they do it" but "why are they called poor when SO MANY of them..."

Anyway, do you finally acknowledge now that your friends are by no means representative of the "poor" in this country and that actually very few people spend money on nails/cigarettes/drugs/dogs at the expense of their children's food? And those who do may have a whole load of emotional/psychological reasons for doing so (never mind a crippling load of debt) and deserve your help and compassion rather than your condemnation?

scattykatty · 12/08/2009 10:57

Wow nybom what a beautifully expected reply you can come to our country and complain that the 'poor' people are spending their money in a way which upsets you. Y

ou can boast about how lovely it is to not even need CTC, but then when things aren't going your way, when people notice the things you say are down right degrading to people you can play the 'oh I'm a foregner, maybe that's why people don't like me' card.

Grow up. Plenty of people I know how come from abraod, but already have more common sense than you can ever dream of when they realise that to make sweeping generalisations about people they do not actually do will not win them any friends.

Tortington · 12/08/2009 10:59

what kind of person earns so much (60-80k) has friends who don't feed their children?

its all a bit wonky

PeachyLaPeche · 12/08/2009 11:01

'going to get all het up just because someone comes on here and gives the quite valid opinion that choosing to try and BF would make more economic sense to someone on a low income. I may have missed something '

Yes you have

this is about claimants yes?

I will now shout at the risk of offending

You Do Not Pay For Your Own Formula If You Are On Benefits

Now I have issues with how the system works based mainly on unavailability of Soy combined witha GP who refused to prescribe, but that aside there is a system in palce; fresh fuit for a Mum who BF's, formula if not and milk when they areold enough

thank you

PeachyLaPeche · 12/08/2009 11:04

' the UK is a bloody brilliant place to live! i never said anything else. but that doesn't mean i have to agree with everything. neihter do i think everything is brilliant in my country of origin. also, OP wasn't intended as a debate or even criticism about SSS of UK, but more along the lines of "i noticed peope do soandso, why do they do it?'

  1. True

  2. that's ptretty much how you start a debate. Give a premise and people discuss it. Trust me, if you don't want debates MN is seriosuly not your natural home.however, I reckon you rather like it.

Walkingwiththighosaurs · 12/08/2009 11:04

I couldn't be arsed to read all this, just wanted to ask the OP why she keeps using question marks instead of apostrophe's?

scattykatty · 12/08/2009 11:05

She's just making it up as she goes along. I'm sorry but she doesn't even have a job so why would the goverment actually encourage someone from abroad to come here when they aren't contributing anything. Her DH yes, her no.

She's probably watched 'Shameless' a few times and thinks everyone lives like that!

She needs to grow up and realise that she doesn't actually have any idea how 99.9% of the population are living their lives. Oh and that it's actually none of her business

Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 11:05

For what it's worth, I believe that budgeting and basic life skills should be taught in school - thinks like sewing on a button, basic cookery, simple diy.

It is a lot easier to budget if you've been taught how; and cooking cheap nutritious food is easier if you understand the language of cookery, so can use cookbooks.

I learned these skills from my parents, but I think we need to teach them in schools to ensure that all kids have these skills, then hopefully they will pass them on to their kids. I certainly value these skills because I know it makes it easier for me to live within our means - I don't necessarily replace clothes that get torn - sometimes I mend them. Budgeting I'm not so good at, but dh is very good indeed, so we balance eachother out.

I also hate the adverts for loans that tell you that not only can you consolidate your debt, but that you can have a holiday, or a new car or kitchen. Consolidating your debts so that the payments become manageable is a good idea - if you can't pay your debts and still afford the basics to live, then you are only going to get further into debt - but surely if you are in bad debt already, it is irresponsible for a company to suggest that you should add several thousand pounds more to that debt?

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 11:09

Curiosity how are you this morning? by the way in your post at 936 i assume you meant Juicyjolly re the flooding the post not me as it was Juicy that was moaning about it?

PeachyLaPeche · 12/08/2009 11:09

It is though also hard work to budget

I have I discovered today cut our fuel bill by half . That has been mainly sheer grgaft (eg not using tumble drier). However, had I not had a garden, health, or DH to watch ds1 whilst I was hanging the washing (not precious, SN) then I couldn't do it.

So much that seems simple becomes a challenge when faced with complications. And as onlookers, we fail to understand even the tiniest part of how these affect people. I mean, when I tell people about ds1 they say 'I bet you are tired / worries / frustrated'- they don't say 'I bet that costs a lot in fuel when you can't go out and makes it ahrd to hang out the washing'.

Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 11:11

*things not thinks - darnit!

nybom · 12/08/2009 11:12

scattykatty i don't have a job? you seem to know more about my life than i do...

OP posts:
Stayingsunnygirl · 12/08/2009 11:14

Peachy - you're right that it is hard work to budget - I know I'm lucky that dh is good at the numbers side of it, because I would struggle far more. And you are just as right about things like the tumbledrier - I loved it when the weather was good, and I could regularly peg out my washing - I felt virtuous, I liked doing it, and it smelled nice too. Sadly here in Scotland the weather does not encourage pegging out - not recently anyhow.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 11:16

Nybom this morning you made a statement about people claiming things about you as they hadn't read your posts correctly. (i am a bitter racist 13 year old snob with an imaginary PhD (obtained in the UK after a language test) from a non-eu country (or essex) with chron's disease... grin
)

If you read back the posts that pertain to the non-eu country that was actually clearly said as an assumption based on you not wanting to reveal your country of origin as this could make clear your ethnicity and therefore potentially lead to rascist comments. The comment about Chrones disease was linked to your statement that you had a chronic medical condition that could have been resolved had you of been breastfeed but failed to mention what this was. I can understand why you would not want to discuss this, but it is not surprising that it leads to people making speculations about what illnesses this could be especially when people then raised concerns about the types of illness this could be. (also not really sure where the bitter racist 13year old snob came from - no one has actually said that).

Just wanted to make it clear that if you or anyone else thinks that these statements were meant to be racist or deregatory previsouly then they were absolutley not.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 11:20

Peachy and StayinSunny I agree re the budget. I have just started my maternity leave and the reality of dropping down to one income in a few weeks time really hasn't sunk in yet. My DH have both worked really hard for our careers and enjoy our lifestyle but i don't think anything that we were taught in school has prepared us for having to totally turn our lives upside down. Fortunatley we already keep appliances switched off, dont have a tumble drier, only use eco light bulbs etc so we are keeping our bills as low as possible, but admittedly it is going to be difficult to not go out and spend money when we have always been able to.

Portofino · 12/08/2009 11:33

If you answered any of the questions people have asked, everyone could stop making assumptions.

"i don't have a job? you seem to know more about my life than i do... " So from that I assume that you DO have a job. You seem happy to criticise other people's lifestyles but have given no information about yours at all.

Of course you could just be making it up as you go along.....

PeachyLaPeche · 12/08/2009 11:34

Also, fwiw the disease linked to BF ? FF

It can be easy tot hink diseases are automatically linked but actually it really is far more complex. DS1 was FF after 3 weeks, rightly so or he'd be dead in all likelihood. he has real problems with digestion, linked to his ASD, and can't tolerate gluten without massive behavioural implications. Issues with bowel structure have been picked up in post motem studies on people with asd btw, it gets confused with all the MMR sytuff but that is fact.

I asumed that I caused that with ff but actually, ds3 (mixed fed until 16 months) has the same isues.

it's all a very cliudy thing and there asre few causes and lots of presipositions involved.

nybom · 12/08/2009 11:46

portofino

i wasn't asked wether i had a job. scattykatty didn't even just assumptions, she stated it AS A FACT.

tbh, i have given enough information about my lifestyle. any more, and i might as well give my telephone number out!

OP posts:
nybom · 12/08/2009 11:47

missing word: make (assumptions)

OP posts:
everythingistaken · 12/08/2009 11:50

nybom how dare you say, you don't know the f reasons why i come here! you don't like been critised but it's ok to comment on"poor people". "

oh and by the way your wrong bout child benifit everbody gets it even if you are better then everyone else nybom.

clemette · 12/08/2009 11:53

nybom to be fair, it was me who asserted you were a SAHM and scattykaty picked up on that. You didn't correct me, but have attacked her.

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