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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
juicyjolly · 11/08/2009 23:11

ElieRM.......To ask someone not to post something is a little strange when the person doing the asking is in no way being forced to read it! Very strange indeed!

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 23:14

stayingsunny- what's cat? thank you so much for your kind offer. am simply upset by the insinuation that ffing is some kind of luxury when its clearly not the case!

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 23:15

juicy- you're quite right. how could i possibly be forced to read something which has not yet been written?

Stayingsunnygirl · 11/08/2009 23:19

Elie - if I understand right, CAT is the internal messaging service here on mumsnet - you have to pay to use it.

Don't let the things nybom has said prey on your mind - there are so many nicer things to think about, and she's talking out of her bottom rubbish!!

juicyjolly · 11/08/2009 23:20

Oh my god! Is that what Elie is upset about.......the fact that someone says ff is some kind of luxury!
I really think you need to grow a thicker skin.

clemette · 11/08/2009 23:23

think that should be wouldn't and their (just testing your thick skin). Oh, a God is a proper noun.

clemette · 11/08/2009 23:23

in that context...

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 23:25

i don't im afraid. however, if you have facebook i'm more than happy to give you y name to search for on this thread.
juicy- super. as you've evidentally never had any kind of issue with breastfeeding, its fair enough you'd be really rather rude about it. congratulations on this! anyway, you're either nybom under another name, or just someone i don't agree with. either way, i shan't respond to you again. if you'd like to know why im upset red previous posts. tatty bye!

juicyjolly · 11/08/2009 23:26

Hahahahaha...........very witty!

Not!

clemette · 11/08/2009 23:28

Not intended to be witty - just pedantic.

jemart · 11/08/2009 23:30

boring.....

juicyjolly · 11/08/2009 23:32

Your response just tells me that obviously the world revolves around you.
Breastfeeding is something I have plenty of knowledge about but wouldnt dream of telling you about my problems concerning bf, so please dont jump to conclusions!

As for why you are upset, I dont really give a rats arse! What bothered me was the fact that you assume to tell others what to post about and what not to. That was my point.

StinkyFart · 11/08/2009 23:34

Not v supportive posts there, that's a shame JJ

clemette · 11/08/2009 23:37

"As for why you are upset, I dont really give a rats arse!" Are you sure MN, a place to find support for each other in issues of parenting, is for you?
It is one thing attempt to dismantle someone's argument in a debate (and enegage in some petty point scoring as we are all guilty of) but saying you don't give a shit that someone is upset is pretty low. I don't know Elie's story, but am hoping for your sake it doesn't involve cancer or anything else equally as devastating.

clemette · 11/08/2009 23:38

engage

everythingistaken · 11/08/2009 23:38

i think juicylolly has issues

it's o.k elie, were all not stuck up our own arse's.

everythingistaken · 11/08/2009 23:40

oh juicyjolly not juicylolly

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 23:41

thank you ladies! but it's honestly quite alright. i'm quite aware i wasn't 'telling anyone what they should or should not post on.' my poitnwas, if a third thread was strated that it would be wise to let it go. evidentally continuing it isn't bringing out the best in many of us.

everythingistaken · 11/08/2009 23:42

"not that i give a rats arse" what her name is.

everythingistaken · 11/08/2009 23:44

don't have to explain elierm for you.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 23:49

thank you my love! dd had jabs today, not fed well so suspect a rough night is in oder. so goodnight and much love

everythingistaken · 11/08/2009 23:52

aww bless him/her their always a bit off when they have their jabs, hope you have a goonight

CurlyhairedAssassin · 12/08/2009 00:19

Well, it seems this is the thread to come to if you want a good scrap.

From what I can see, the OP has a way of phrasing things which is a bit unfortunate, presumably due to her not being a native of this country. I can't see any evidence of people taking that into account.

Secondly, the OP must be sick to the back teeth of repeating herself over and over again that she is categorically NOT making sweeping judgements about every single bloody person on benefits as a group, as nearly everyone here is jumping on the bandwagon about.

Thirdly, there ARE a tiny, teeny, weeny amount of people on benefits who do fiddle the system and receive beyond what they are really entitled to recieve. You are naive if you belive otherwise. Being on benefits is shit, yes - to the vast majority of law-abiding, morally-upstanding people that claim them, and it's especially shit that tthis and other governments have created a situation where some families have to choose to stay on benefits because to accept a poorly-paid job would make them worse off, or that the nearest childcare is of poor quality. But surely it's a given that the OP was making points referring to a certain segment of claimants that all you naiive MN posters seem to think is a figment of the Daily Mail's imagination. Stereotypes they may be, but stereotypes come to being for a reason - because people like them EXIST, however few of them there may actually be, they do actually exist. Don't try to pretend otherwise, we have all come across the feckless kind of person the OP is talking about.

Fourthly, I considered that the OP was musing about people's behaviour from a cultural perspective - clearly different to how things are done in her country, which is fair enough, surely? As I say, an unfortunate way with words, but there you go.

I have seen very little of the usual Mumsnet open-mindedness displayed here, and lots of playground-like jumping on the bandwagon, with a big handful of hysterical sweeping assumptions thrown in.

Oh well, if this is how you like to all get your kicks then so be it. I prefer a more RATIONAL debate.

LetThemEatCake · 12/08/2009 00:31

here's an idea: let's all just be a bit more thrifty, a bit less wasteful, a bit more aware, okay? regardless of financial status.

And fgs, let's leave the bf v ff debate out of it.

posieparkerinChina · 12/08/2009 04:29

Just thought I would clarify my questioning... I had read a few posts that kept asking where Nybom was from...I did think retospectively that it may be because she was talking from a "My country is better than yours perspective" a position that only annoys the natives.

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