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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
nybom · 11/08/2009 18:35

you know, having not being BF myself as a baby is also an emotive and sensitive issue as i've been left with a chronic medical condition which very well would have been prevented if i had been BF. so it hurts me to see so many women (poor or not) who chose (and i stress "chose") not to BF.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:35

juicy - nybom has made the assertions, nybom is therefore required to justify herself.

If you wish to assert nybom has been called names it is perfectly reasonable for you to be asked to justify this assertion.

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 18:37

rolls eyes

Oh my god.

nybom · 11/08/2009 18:37

btw, it is also rather racist if you keep making fun of my spelling & choice of words - that is just like mimicking an accent.

OP posts:
josiejo79 · 11/08/2009 18:38

I wasn't aware that people could get chronic illnesses through not being BF and that these could have been preventable. I appreciate that you probably don't want to tell anyone what this condition is, but i wonder if you could give some examples of what these Chronic medical conditions could be nybom?

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:40

I see I have given her ideas...

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 18:40

I am Scottish and people mimic my accent all the time. I don't find it racist - after all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

now your choice of words (in otherwords, your opinion) being challenged is racism?

For god sake, somebody get me out of here.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:41

so you're aware its an emotionally charged issue. i repeat, in that case, you should not have brought it up.

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 18:41

What a ridiculous thing to say Nybom - what condition is this that would have been prevented by the magic that is breast-milk?

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 18:41

I assume she means Ezcema?

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:46

nybom - I have found several of your posts difficult to understand. That. is. not. racist.

If you had done a PhD in this country you would have been required to have passed a proficiency in English test wouldn't you? I'm not sure what counts as proficient but I would imagine it should mean the general population should be easily able to understand your (particularly) written English. The fact that I can't always understand what you mean makes me suspect that the PhD is a lie. Since you have used it to justify your opinion, if it was a lie then it invalidates your points and this is why it is of interest.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:52

curiosity- she knows what you mean. you've explained it in the most articulate and concise fashion. therefore i beleive she's wilfully misunderstanding you because its easier to accuse you of racism.
also nybom, you cannot assert taht you find bfing a sensitive and motional matter. i do not reduce matters that i find emotional and sensitve to statistics. nor do i ignore the issues that surround them. i would also be very wary of causing offense by brining up such issues in an insensitve manner knowing they are a sore point for myself.

josiejo79 · 11/08/2009 18:55

Nybom in reference to your post;

'it hurts me to see so many women (poor or not) who chose (and i stress "chose") not to BF.'

How do you know that these women chose not to BF or are you making an assumption? Assumption is a dangerous thing, Curiosity assumes that their statements are not racist, you assume that they are. Surely this whole thread is all about assumption and that people judge others based on what they see rather than actually spending time to understand different people's situations.

Can you also please answer my question from my earlier post?

Stayingsunnygirl · 11/08/2009 19:00

So, Nybom, even knowing that it is an emotive subject, and having been told that you have hurt people and caused offense, you still choose not to apologise.

And JuicyJolly - if Nybom's 'examples' have caused hurt and offense, why would you defend that?

And what you call nitpicking, others (myself included) call debate. If nybom raises an issue or makes an assertion, then she must expect to be challenged on it, and should be able to back up her assertions.

I see little evidence that she is willing to do so - which leads me to conclude that she simply wants to keep banging on at this issue, despite the fact that it must be blatantly obvious to any half-way intelligent person, that she is not making any friends here nor is she finding a large number of people who agree with her unpleasant views!

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 19:05

I fail to see how I have said anything even remotely racist. There hasn't been any racism that I have seen. The closest was a clumsy post of someone else's (can't remember who) that I objected to and the vague hints at cultural superiority the OP and husband have made. Even those are tenuous.

clemette · 11/08/2009 19:05

Pondering how a sociology PhD could not know that using the term coloured is considered racist in Britain. Especially as her husband works in something to do with social security...

josiejo79 · 11/08/2009 19:07

curiosity I am not suggesting that you have said anything racist, just that Nybom assumes that the points that you are making are racist, and therefore is reacting to what you say in this way.

FAQtothefuture · 11/08/2009 19:08

Fraser - the Healthy Start tokens don't cover the cost of milk for a full week

josiejo79 · 11/08/2009 19:09

Nybom I'm still waiting for an answer re my post at 1855.

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 19:09

josie - ok, sorry I'm not sure nybom even thinks that. She seems like she brings it out for sympathy.

FAQtothefuture · 11/08/2009 19:10

"Lives on tins by end of month - sounds implausible. If you're on benefits you're richest at the end of the month because your housing gets paid before the rent comes out."

ermm not strictly true - it's usually paid every 4 week - and it's in arrears. So July rent you'd get the money paid to you in August. And as it's every 4 weeks often it comes in mid or even start of the month.

FAQtothefuture · 11/08/2009 19:13

I bought a pack of pre-cut fruit in Morrisons today........I saw on them on special offer (never noticed them before) and thought of this thread and couldn't resist

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 19:14

faq - yes realise it's in arrears. Ours was paid every 2 weeks, I assumed it was the same everywhere. I was really talking about in terms of regular cash flow. Perhaps I should have said that different amounts come in at different times so there isn't really an 'end of the month' situation.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 19:15

curiosity- or to avoid the questions you've put to her?

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 19:16

When I had DS1 I was adament I was going to FF and I managed to get on a Milk-study and got all my formula free for 6 months

oh FAQ - Precut fruit is delicious, and no bruises or pips to worry about

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