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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:01

i think there's a peverse enjoyment by the op to want to try and belittle people by commenting on a subject which can provoke feels of guilt and sadness. and by criticising the way they spend their money whilst knowing nothing about their circumstances. or by quoting statistics or claiming personal attack/not read the op properly when someone hs the tenacity to ask a question qhich pokes a hole in the argument.
and to be fair, its difficult to have any smypathy for her when she started a second thread afterthe reaction to the first one.

Morloth · 11/08/2009 18:04

Yes longtalljosie, buy 1 chocolate mud cake, 1 jar of black cherries, some double cream and a bottle of kirsch.

Drain cherries, and pour on some kirsch. Whip cream. Slice mudcake in half across the cake (this may not be obvious if you have been conducting quality control on the kirsch), pour some kirsch on bottom half of cake, whack some of the cherries on then LOTS of cream, before putting top of cake back on, pour some more kirsch on it). Slap top of cake on, put lots and lots of cream on top and if you are feeling posh some cherries and grated chocolate.

Longtalljosie · 11/08/2009 18:06

That sounds bloody marvellous. Will wait until no longer pregnant so I can do the kirsch justice...

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:06

I get free chips when I visit my MIL... There's nothing better than free chips...

Morloth · 11/08/2009 18:07

You could, theoretically make it without the kirsch, but I can't see the point really.

You know you have got the recipe right when each slice is about 3,000 calories and you fail a breathalyser .

Longtalljosie · 11/08/2009 18:10

No I agree, I think it's worth the wait...

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:11

juicy - what names was nybom called? Why did you not report these posts for personally attacking her?

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 18:12

nybom:

I don't know for sure that you are NOT from this country. I can't trust anything you tell us because it makes no sense. I can be biased towards people from my country or others based on the idiot scale rather than their race.

hmm - so if you see a coloured person in the streets and call him names, then it isn't racist because you don't know what country he's from?

What the biggest load of crap I have read amongst this thread. Nobody has called you any names on here. They have criticised your attitude and approach. As for the country issue, YOU are the person denying us this information therefore we have no clue where you are from.

And if I saw a coloured person in the streets and called him names (using your aforementioned gender) then it is more than likely for his bad manners, ignorance or poor driving rather than the colour of his skin.

You are way off the mark here.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:14

or to be blunt, if she's not actually experienced any of the situations she's seen fit to comment on, and she can't comment without casuing offence which she evidentally can't she should pipe down. if she has experienced those situations one would expect her to show a degree of empathy. and the thing i find most galling, which given that she's just personally offended me was fairly hard to pinpoint, is the fact that she upset lots of people with her first thread. so i find it hrd to believe she started this without the intention of causing more upset.
sorry, should laugh it off and talk about cake, but am upset now.

nybom · 11/08/2009 18:18

elieRM how did i "personally offend you"? the FF, as all the examples, referred to my friends who CHOSE to FF. as you pointed out you wanted to BF but sadly couldn't.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:20

Nybom has been systematically making judgements openly drawing on her 'different cultural background' implying that this makes her superior. She Her husband has made reference to their country of origin's SSS being superior but will not allow anyone else to make an assessment of the validity of this point by explaining what that country is. Then Nybom cries racism. The only vague hints at racist attitudes have come from nybom and her 'husband' when they have been implying that they are from a culturally superior country to people from the UK. Perhaps we should be glad she wouldn't elaborate as inevitably she would have gained more sympathy from her attempts to cry wolf had she done 'the big reveal'.

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 18:22

Surely poor people on benefits would get thier milk free (Via Milk/Healthy Start tokens) anyway, so its not making them any poorer.

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 18:22

I meant to put poor like this 'poor', as its Nybom's term, not mine.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:23

'only 1% of all women can't BF for physical or phsychological reasons. for all i care take another couple of percent out of the equasion for those women who are in a social situation (abusive partners etc.) who are pressured into NOT BF and other genuine reasons. that means for the majority of women FF is a CHOICE and thus a luxury'
are your friends the majority of women? i'm not in that 1%. you made no mention of the extensive problems caused by lack of support. it that fits into 'other genuine reasons' you'll find you'll need to add on far more than a few % to account for the women who ff due to that reason. your tone regarding the few extra per cent was dismissive. i find it offensive you describe formula feeding as a luxury when i can ausser you, for the 'majority of women' it most definately is not. you jsut need to look on the bf/bottle feeding threads for proof of this.

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:24

frasersmum - yes, this is what she is objecting to. She is implying that she doesn't think the undeserving should be bought formula with her tax money.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:24

why do you think your friends are representative of the rest of society?

nybom · 11/08/2009 18:26

curiosity - very imaginative tale... have you published any fiction?

OP posts:
Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 18:26

EllieRM - I did ask that question back a few pages but it was one of the questions nybom failed to respond to.

Stayingsunnygirl · 11/08/2009 18:27

Nybom - let me tell you that, as someone who is in the same position as ElieRM and KembleTwins - not being able to breastfeed is immensely painful and stressful. I know that it contributed to my postnatal depression, and made me feel even more of a failure than I already felt.

Your comments were deeply insensitive and hurtful, and as such, Elie did find them personally offensive. Formula feeding can be an extremely emotive and sensitive subject, and you lumped it into your critical opening post in a way that was very simplistic - it certainly wasn't clear in your OP that you think it is OK for some women to formula feed, but not others, nor that you were prepared to judge people like Elie and I and find us deserving of being allowed to formula feed.

You owe Elie and KembleTwins an apology for that.

juicyjolly · 11/08/2009 18:30

Yes nybom and her husband have both been called names on this thread and I am sure you damn well know this so no, I will not repeat what those names were!

As for reporting these posts, then no I have not and will not. Nybom seems quite capable of holding her own and if she wishes to report them then more power to her.

The examples nybom has given, were just that, examples. She has never said everyone who does not breast feed, not use organic, people on benefits and every other bloody thing that has been nitpicked to fuck applies to every person. They were examples!
She is not talking about everyone as I am sure most of you damn well know, but like the old saying 'a dog with a bone' does seem to apply to many here.

curiositykilled · 11/08/2009 18:31

nybom - what was your PhD research on? Did you not have to have to pass a proficiency test in English to be able to do your PhD? Your English has not really been very intelligible on this thread so I am assuming English is not your first language.

These questions are valid as you assert your Sociology PhD as a reason for your interest/opinion.

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:31

nybom- with reference to the 'nybomshusband' posts- have YOU published any fiction?

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 18:33

Gosh - slightly too aggressive with the highly coloured language juicyjolly!

ElieRM · 11/08/2009 18:33

stayingsunny- i could kiss you.

Frasersmum123 · 11/08/2009 18:34

I see now, well its a good job I am rich enough to be able to FF, otherwise my DS2 would have starved!

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