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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
clemette · 10/08/2009 23:00

You have puddings!!?? Pure profligacy in my book. I demand my NI contributions back.

K999 · 10/08/2009 23:02

I dont normally since I usually use the money to buy fags - but hey at 54p, who can resist?

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 23:03

we have puddings every night

WhatFreshHellIsThis · 10/08/2009 23:05

Just wondered, remembered that thread as being yours and wanted to see what the outcome was.

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 23:07

I went to feed the scabby dog the precut veg that my poor deprived kids were not entitled to and the thread got all serious again.

Thank god its gone daft again.

Its lucky that a sense of humour doesnt cost anything. The rich cant take that of us poor ones. Although we are definatly frowned upon for having one, not having earned it, and having something that they dont all seem to have.

hobbgoblin · 10/08/2009 23:07

faq we had walls ice cream with chopped for us, not by us, fruit for pud! natch

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 23:09

I have 7 small bags of blackberries in the freezer - we picked 2kg+ in the last week

blueshoes · 10/08/2009 23:10

curiosity, whatever you might feel about this thread, threadkilling is ridiculous and childish.

hobbgoblin · 10/08/2009 23:20

I had garlic mushrooms that were foraged for on Sunday and we are blackberry picking next weekend. We might buy HughFW's foraging book and have a right old freebie food scamper in the cuntree.

We know our place. We are offsetting the extravagances.

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 01:13

I am glad you have a good life and it is not boring. Noting your attempts at cutting costs of unnecessary expenses in your life you could cut costs even more by the following:

  1. Move from you bricks and mortar home and build yourself a tree house in a forest somewhere. Just think of all the money you would save on not using up gas and electric.
  1. Whilst you are in that forest, plant yourself a few fruit trees and bushes. Forget the precut fruit argument, you can leave out the supermarket altogether!
  1. Along with the fruit trees you could take your vegetable patch with you (I am assuming that you have one in your garden currently so you don't have to spend money buying vegetables) and eat those too.
  1. Keep chickens for eggs. (I am sure you can steal some from a farm, you won't have to pay then)
  1. Grow wheat to make flour which will enable you to bake. (Again, I am sure the farmer will offer you a field.)
  1. Why not have a "forest" theme party for birthdays? Make the cake from your eggs and flour and use the fruit for decoration and flavouring. I am sure this will only take a few days to cook over your little camp fire that you light with rubbing two sticks together. Tip: Get someone to teach you this because it can take a while to get the knack.
  1. Use the local river for bathing and lemon off your trees for washing your hair. Will be a bit cold but you will soon get used to it.
  1. Stop buying those magazines you refer to. Don't you know they are originally made from trees? That could be your habitat they are ripping down.
  1. As for the toilet issue I think you just have to squat and use your hand or a wide green leaf for tissue. Bit mucky but I am sure with being all at one with nature and feeling totally smug and content in the knowledge you are keeping your living costs down to a minimum that wiping your derriere with your hand will give you lots of satisfaction.

It sounds like you should study a Psychology course and not sociology because the way people spend their money is nothing to do with society in general but all to do with the way people's heads work and choices they make.

I don't begrudge anybody rich or poor anything that makes them happy whether they can afford it or not. You are a long time dead and you should make the most of every moment alive because when you die its all over.

If you think my reply is unrealistic or unreasonable then you probably need to look at the whole arrogance of your OP and using your interest in sociology decipher why you have pissed off so many people.

After all, can so many people be so wrong against one view?

LoveBeingAMummy · 11/08/2009 08:17

By nybom Mon 10-Aug-09 18:42:29 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster
it is great how you don't even bother to properly READ what i write and just hurl abuse for the sake of it... i never said i had an IQ of 140. i never said this country was awful, it is actually great. i never said i am better then anyone. i am not superior. FGS - just ... read ... what ... i write ... i never said i DIDN't come from a poor background. you are just assuming things. don't. i'm not addressing you, i'm talking about people i know personally, and i have talked to my friends about these issues (as they raised them). they are not offended. and contrary to what you might believe, they are not happy.

No you didn't say this on this thread but you did on another

nybom · 11/08/2009 09:21

ever considered that the majority people seem to be pissed of because

a) i have hit the nail on the head
b) they aren't taking the topic seriously, after all some admit to just be messing around for the hell of it
c) any genuine posters have been freightened away with immature behaviour. notice how all the posts are similar. i wouldn't be surprised if several MNs took on several identities. you feel safe in numbers and with your obusive behaviour you are putting off anyone with a different opinion
d) this is a left wing message board

OP posts:
KembleTwins · 11/08/2009 09:22

"pissed of"? I can't take you seriously given your dreadful spelling. Sorry.

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 09:33

I don't think you have hit the nail on the head. I believe your view is very naive, after all you are only talking about your circle of friends. What percentage of population is that do you think?

Not taking the topic seriously does not make someone pissed off. You have to offend somebody probably to piss them off. If posters are pissed off with you, consider that point.

I am a genuine poster and am not frightened away by what you class as immature posters. I only have one identity. I would stick my neck out any day on my own if I believed in what I was saying.

OBUSIVE is actually spelled ABUSIVE.

My opinion is not abusive, albeit perhaps delivered in a sarcastic tone, which in itself is merely a form of disbelief at your view.

Left wing message board? I have been called a Liberalist, a Communist and a Conservative all in the last year. Makes no difference to me what people's political agenda is.

What strikes me, seriously, about your posts is that you just want ONE person to agree with you to give yourself piece of mind and belief that your view is in some way correct. Your view is neither correct or incorrect because we all have free thought. However, what you cannot do is throw your toys out of the pram because the majority of responses to your thread are incompatible with your view.

As I said in my last post, even though you are entitled to your view, most people do not appear to share this. By not sharing your view does not make them all the things you state in your previous posting.

If you want to talk abusive then that could be construed as coming from you by your continuing battering down on us of your thoughts and your insults when nobody agrees with you.

You may be financially savvy but you clearly have no idea when to quit. Nobody needs an IQ of 140 to know that.

daftpunk · 11/08/2009 09:38

nybom;

alot of people agree with you, they are called tories....

i'm not sure why so many mumsnetters react the way they do on these threads,...i doubt any of them live the life you describe..>

anyway, back to your Q;..i think it's down to education,(some) poorer people don't place as much importance on healthy eating and the environment, more influenced by marketing, popular culture..etc etc....

daftpunk · 11/08/2009 09:40

and yep...you need to know when to quit...you've been dragging this out for almost a week...start a thread on something else.

woozlet · 11/08/2009 09:42

Question for nybom while she is here -

Why are you friends with these people? I'm surprised you have anything in common.

Stayingsunnygirl · 11/08/2009 10:07

Nybom - the majority of people on these threads are pissed off because of the unpleasantly superior tone you have taken, and the way you feel impelled to carry on criticising those you consider to be the undeserving poor, in the hopes that someone will come on here and agree with you.

If you had come on and said that there are people who make bad decisions about how they spend their money/allocate their budget, you might have got more agreement - but even though that's true, it's not your business.

nybom · 11/08/2009 10:09

i have no objections whatsoever about people having a different opinion to me, but responses such as fuck the fuck off are not a constructive way of arguing and not the level of conversation i engage in. also, you might find (if you followed the discussion) that there was more than one person agreeing. 5-10% or so, i don't know as i don't care. so i'm not just after the one person. as i repeatedly said, if people keep the thread(s) alive by posting and they keep asking me questions why should i "quit"?

OP posts:
StinkyFart · 11/08/2009 10:15

nybom I really cannot take you seriously now that you have boobed in the mrnybom department and revealed yourself as a person who has resorted to using more than one identity to back up your 'argument'on this thread

and

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 10:20

Oh dear, if you don't know because you don't care what on earth is your OP all about? You said you were interested in this from a Sociology point of view, how can you NOT be interested or care about the views in the 5-10% of people who DO agree with you?

QUOTE:
"also, you might find (if you followed the discussion) that there was more than one person agreeing. 5-10% or so, i don't know as i don't care."

It sounds to me like you have no clue what you are talking about. You just write the first thing that comes into your head.

nybom · 11/08/2009 10:26

stinkyfart ???

fruit "i don't care" in the sense that i don't read through the posts making a tally chart FGS!

OP posts:
ssd · 11/08/2009 10:33

so is mr nybom actually just nybom then?

StinkyFart · 11/08/2009 10:35

exhibit A

By nybomshusband on Mon 10-Aug-09 21:50:08
THEN I WILL JUST START ANOTHER ONE grin ... and people will post and post and post just like they have done this time and like they did the first time and like they will always do... grin

Exhibit B

By nybom on Mon 10-Aug-09 21:50:52
THEN I WILL JUST START ANOTHER ONE grin ... and people will post and post and post just like they have done this time and like they did the first time and like they will always do... grin

I rest my case M'Lud

Fruitysunshine · 11/08/2009 10:36

Why not? What is the point in posting if you are not going to take notice of the percentage of people agreeing with you?

I think you need to go and learn the art of debate so that in future you can start a discussion thread and actually have a discussion without offending people.

It is not a competition but there is certain etiquette to having a grown up discussion and your lack of respect towards fellow posters, your appalling sense of superiority and downright bloody mindedness to leave this post alone is not the right way to win over people to your train of thought.

Just a wee bit of constructive criticism.

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