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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
K999 · 10/08/2009 20:53

I work hard and pay taxes (as many others do). It is my taxes and others that pay for benefits and tbh I couldnt care what folk on benefits choose to do with their money. I wouldnt want to swap places but appreciate that it could easily be me tomorrow..."there for the grace of God" and all that...

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 20:54

the plight of the working poor

a) has nothing to do with this thread

b) is not the fault of those on benefits (who also don't have an easy time of it - albeit slightly easier than the working poor).

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:54

And as far as my taxes go I know damn well benefits claimants are a drop in the bucket.

They are just scapegoats The Man wags the dog with to keep your eyes off the ball.

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 20:54

Yes I have met 'one'.

Most of the people in my area are on benefits and yes most of them have their holidays and go out getting pissed and have their plasmas and and and.

My point is a working person should be earning more than anyone on benefits. This point seems to be getting ignored.

Example; I nearly had to leave my home with my daughter as the landlady had sent everyone a letter and new contract to sign for a rent increase. There were only two tenants who couldnt afford the increase.
I was one (working)
The other was another lady (also working)
Nobody else even knew what the increase was because they didnt have to bother themselves about it.
Great country we live in eh!

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 20:58

That has nothing to do with this thread though

Poohbah · 10/08/2009 20:58

What annoys me is that we have poor people in this country at all. The government sent 340 million pounds to the congo last year. Now I wonder how much money those poor people actually got and whether it would be better spent in this country where there are many poor people!!!!!

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 20:59

what do you mean they didn't have to find out abut it?

I was on LHA -and had my rent gone up I'd have had to pay more out of my own pocket towards it (I got the full LHA award - but the rate for a 3 bedroom place round here leaves little choice and most people end up having to top up out of their other benefits).

It's a set amount for anyone.

There is no way that someone on benefits can afford all of those things on benefits alone.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE - ok??? got that???? at least it's impossible to without taking out credit.

Yes it is possible - if you have no, or little debt when you end up on benefits - to save carefully towards these things - but it takes time.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 21:00

'My point is a working person should be earning more than anyone on benefits. This point seems to be getting ignored.'

No it isn't!

That's not the fault of people on benefits, either.

It's the fault of the system.

I'm in the same boat wrt private renting.

Why get angry at folks on benefits?

Why not work towards reform in all levels of government?

Do you vote? I really hope so!

I know I do! and I'm on a firstname basis with my MP and my MSP.

I email and go to their surgeries and ask questions. Where do you stand on XYZ? Why?

coolma · 10/08/2009 21:01

Don't know if i dare enter this conversation, but...it is a fact that if me and dh split up and I took the children away from this house that we are buying and got rented accomodation with them, gave up my job, and lived on benefits, we would be better off by £147 per week. Now that is really depressing. That's why people get on their high horses about 'the poor' I guess. It's the 'system' that's wrong. Maybe that's irrelevant - but have been getting quite down about it lately...

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:02

340 million wouldn't go far at all.

The NDC initivate cost £2billion (over a 10yr period) and it only focussed on 39 severely deprived areas of the UK. While most of those projects have started to show successes - there's still a hell of a long way to go in them - and that's not even the tip of the iceberg in terms of areas that need to have help injected.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:04

juicy - that sounds a likely story - you have access to the intimate details of your neighbour's finances do you? You have gained access to their homes in order to take an inventory and had them provide proof of purchase?

No-one is ignoring that fact that the working poor get a raw deal. We're just saying it has nothing to do with the OP and that the fact you are unhappy with your life has nothing to do with anyone else.

KERALA1 · 10/08/2009 21:05

Not sure I agree that welfare payments are a "drop in the bucket". Think I read that welfare payments well exceeded the education budget last year.

LittleMissMummy · 10/08/2009 21:05

curiosity - yeah you are right, didnt mean to get so enraged!! oh and thanks for the fan im a bit calmer now! But my blood was just boiling with every page I was reading

I dont see why the OP doesnt just leave if this bothers her so much !

K999 - totally agree with you. I try to appreciate what I have everyday as one day it could be me on them.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 21:05

We would be, too, coolma. But so? It makes no difference.

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:05

actually you know - we had some really nice stuff from before ended up on benefits................no point in selling it as I could budget to feed the kids on what we get, plus pay bills, so didn't need the cash then - so I get to enjoy some of that nice stuff now........

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 21:07

'Not sure I agree that welfare payments are a "drop in the bucket". Think I read that welfare payments well exceeded the education budget last year.'

That figure will be inclusive of ALL forms of welfare like carer's allowance, pension tax credit, etc.

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 10/08/2009 21:09

I haven't read the previous thread and only a few posts on this one, partly because I cant be arsed, partly because I'm too busy chuckling at the idea that turning your engine off for short stops saves fuel and the car engine - it bloody well does not!
Several mechanics have told me to leave the engine running if I'm only going to be starting the car up again quickly (i.e. dropping off dd in the cm house). Everybody knows this - I am now joining GOML in a chant of Ner Ner Ne Ner Neeer

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 21:09

I wish i could juggle.

I wish the schools didn't go back next week!

I want a normal gall bladder

None of these things have anything to do with this thread, but as we are bringing up any old moan here are mine, i'm sure i can think of more.

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 21:09

littlemissmummy.........you sound more like a racist and I find you very offensive!

Do not try and tell me it is impossi le to have all these things while on benefits when I KNOW it is.

I did NOT say everyone on benefits has all these things, I said SOME.
I dont really give a rats arse whether you believe me or not, but I was also saying that some people who are on sick pay. Yes thats right, people on sick pay recieve more money than most of my working friends and why, because they can get their gp to write a sick note whenever they need it.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:12

juicy - you would be much happier in your own life if you stopped looking at other people's whatever you had.

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:12

FFS JJ - what part of the following do you not understand

  1. Some people get help from friends and family (my beautiful mahogany table and my swanky new computer were gifts to me)
  1. Some people buy this stuff on credit and end up in lots and lots of debt
  1. Some people horror actually own some of this stuff before they end up on benefits.
  1. There is no way that someone can have ALL of the things you mentioned on benefits alone with no outside help/credit/having owned it before they ended up on them.
Tamarto · 10/08/2009 21:14

Maybe you should start a different thread where people can shoot you down you can bring this up because it has nothing to do with the OP and i'm all for natural progression but..

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:14

littlemissmummy did sound racist, that was my first thought, but I think she was just referring to the fact that the OP kept going on about how much better things were in the country she had come from.

Think it just made littlemissmummy very angry and it came out clumsily - right?

flockwallpaper · 10/08/2009 21:15

I've seen both sides. I've been on benefits, and I've had a good job where I paid a lot of tax. I have lived in a country with no welfare state and seen first hand the misery it can bring. Benefits are a blessing.

Some people in this country have such a strong sense of entitlement. Sorry but benefits are there to pay for essentials only.

Although I don't like the tone of the OP, I see her point.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 21:16

Who are you to say what people spend their money on?

I am that you think you have that right.

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