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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
nybomshusband · 10/08/2009 21:17

clemette
I am sorry if you don't understand what I mean. I have now tried to explain it to you a couple of times, but I don't seem to be able to get my message across.
If you can please look back at my first answer to your question: I never said that people are paying 20% - I said that employers and employees contributions together are 20% and therefore, in the UK roughly 20% of employees earning end up in the social security system - basically the same as you are saying, right?!?
I hope you will find that my basic economics are not so flawed after all. If that is not so however, I would have to advise my employer that I might have overpaid the government by a couple of hundred thousand pounds last year, as one of my work responsibilities is the monthly compilation and payment of PAYE and NIC as well as its annual reconciliation.

LittleMissMummy · 10/08/2009 21:17

juicy - no not racist just extremely pissed off that some stuck up idiot (sorry but thats as nicely as Im going to put it) is on her high horse and commenting on how other people live their lives when it has hee-haw to do with her. If she is so bothered by it then she should go back to her own country. Simple as that [grin ]

K999 · 10/08/2009 21:19

Oh no, the husbands back!!

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:20

well guess what flock - I've done all those things too.

and I disagree with you - if someone is capable of living really frugally on their benefits and saving for some nice stuff - good for them.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:21

Oooo, the husband is back!!!

We're over a quarter of the way to the end of this thread, I wonder if nybom will start another.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 21:21

That's a fault of the system, though, juice, IMO.

And I phoned the HA again today (no council housing here, the stock's all been transferred, which is common enough) and 'Rab' said he'd phone back but he didn't before close of play so guess who will phone again tomorrow at 9AM?

We got offered a 2nd floor flat back in Feb. and said no then, thinking things would be different when push came to shove.

But it's not and the place is still vacant so I'm going to ask if we can have it.

Because we are desperate.

But still, still can't get it up to be angry at benefits claimants and how they spend their money.

Don't have energy.

I'm on an eye-watering dose of ADs and I need to get packing.

Come next week, I'll need to wake at 6 and get the girls up.

I'll have to take walk to the bus to get them to school and nursery for 9AM, then hang round the bus shelter till 9.30 to get DD2 in nursery.

Then walk 2 miles with DS in the buggy to where DH has parked the car and hang out there till noon.

Or hang out somewheres.

Come home and keep packing.

I've seen the place, IF we are lucky to get it.

It needs a lot of work.

And it's built into a hill so we'll have to go down with all our things, then up the two flights.

That's life!

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 21:23

Yes, the husband is back. Still not saying where they are from . . .

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 21:25

curiositykilled.........I am not a liar.
The people I am talking about I have known for over ten years.
They boast about what they have and often tell me I am a fool for working.
One even said I should 'get on the sick like her'.

And lets get one thing straight.

I am not unhappy with my life.
I have a beautiful 17yr old daughter who has not caused me one ounce of trouble since the day she was born (lucky me)
I have a beautiful husband who has never caused me any unhappiness.
I have friends of over twenty years (some on benefits and sick pay)None of whom abuse the system!

Are people that naive to think some dont know how to 'work the system' and come out on top.

But believe me when I say, Yes this annoys the fuck out of me, but to say 'i am an unhappy person anyway just sounds a little childish!

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:27

if they're not getting money on the side I bet they don't boast about the amount of debt they're in because of all the "stuff" they're bought........

flatcapandpearls · 10/08/2009 21:30

I was on benefits as a single parent and can say that it is impossible to buy a plasma tv unless it is on credit over a long period and at very high interest rates. Common sense would say that, as a working person I could not afford a plasma TV,or infact most of the things on your list but I would certainly not be jealous of someone who had got them from dodgy loans or catalogues.

As for holidays, I had a holiday as a single mum on benefits, it was in a caravan in Morecambe and donated by the local church. I paid £20 for a weeks holiday, I cant believe you would begrudge someone that.

I was on housing benefit and can assure you that I would have known if my rent had gone up as I would be paying the increase.

clemette · 10/08/2009 21:33

I said that employers and employees contributions together are 20% and therefore, in the UK roughly 20% of employees earning end up in the social security system - basically the same as you are saying, right?!?

No - 11% of the employees earning end up in the social security system. And then it is topped up. This extra 11% is not part of an employee's earnings. It is money from employers paid to the government as part of their "on-costs".
Not sure what is not clear about the difference?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:33

No-one thinks people don't work the system. What we all think (sorry for speaking for you) is you should bother about your own life, perhaps be angry at the government for not identifying you as in need and concentrate on doing things to make your own life happy.

I'm glad if you are already happy but it does rather undermine your point.

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 21:35

littlemissmummy........still dont like your tone. Anyone that says 'get back to your own country' should learn to keep their mouth shut!
These people work in this country paying taxes and spending money, while they do so they are as entitled to stay here!
Maybe some should take a leaf out of their book!

nybomshusband · 10/08/2009 21:36

What a warm welcome!
Hidiho my fellow debationists!

nybomshusband · 10/08/2009 21:39

clemette
Sorry - we don't seem to get anywhere with this.
Never mind.

clemette · 10/08/2009 21:40

I simply think it is important to be accurate. Your claim is not accurate.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:42

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 21:42

'these people' juicyjolly?

just as bad an expression as if you don't like it go home. Surely.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:42

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:43

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:43

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 21:43

I'm on benefits and about to have another roll-up and a bottle of Magners

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:44

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 21:44

This thread is ridiculous, please can we all just flood it so it dies?

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 21:44

I'm not on benefits watching a non plasma TV still not bitter

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