Actually, is my mother being unreasonable?

[kittywise]

OK here's the senario:

My mother has offered to take various of my children to the local cinema, both today and on Monday. On the whole I am pleased that she is doing this as I am not a great cinema fan, I have tinnitus and cannot be in very noisy situations.

She has taken them before too.

The catch is that I have to pay for everybody to go, including her. She is certainly well off enough to afford it herself though, she is, for instance, planning to buy an antique clock worth £9,000 because she likes old things and it's a good investment etc etc.

I wasn't too bothered by this initially as it enabled the kids to see films and got me out of going.

Dp, however, thinks she is outrageous in asking me to pay. He reckons no other grandparent would do this if they could afford to pay with their own money.

He says that the kids will think she so wonderful and generous, taking them off to the cinema, when infact she hasn't paid anything for it.

Now I feel very agitated by the whole situation. Yesterday I bought tickets for her and 3 of the kids and it cost £21. She has offered to take them again on monday and it will be even more money then, as 4 kids are going. Money IS an issue for us though, we are, like many people, struggling big time.

She has gone on holiday with me and the kids ( dp stays at home and works), but she does not pay ANYTHING she hands dp a bill at the end of the holiday for all her 'expenses' which last year, for a week, amounted to over £300!!!

So basically I don't know whether she is being normal or rubbish.
Please tell me what you think. Is this normal behaviour? Would you be quite happy for this to be the 'arrangement' in your house; that your mother offered to take your kids out, but you had to pay for it?

Thanks( a very confused kitty)

£300 on treats is a huge amount, though.
We are off to a rented house for 10 days soon.
Both sets of grandparents and 2 uncles and aunts will visit for stays of 2-5 days.
We pay for the house and 2 big Tesco deliveries, and I will cook dinner (dh will do puddings!).
Grandparents will enjoy their time with Ds 1 and 2, who adore them. Last year my FIL paid for all of us to go to a safari-park place - we had some vouchers but it still added up, so very kind. My sister will rent a car to come down with my brother which is costing her £36, which isn't insignificant (she is a student).
They wouldn't dream of charging us for their expenses (the petrol to get there!). We won't buy ice-creams while we are there Tesco's will be bringing some with their delivery and we have packed lunches so not too many extra expenses.
I don't think being given a bill at the end is OK - should be planned with you how much of your money is being spent...

if you did decide to let her take the kids to the cinema maybe you could make a point of giving your children there 'own' money so they know its come from you. They'll also learn to pay for things themselves and you mum doesnt look like the 'generous' grandma. You could give your mum the money for her ticket if you wish and tell her the children have there own money, when its gone its gone. Then theres no hidden bills to pay either

YANBU.
If I decide to take a child somewhere, I expect to pay for that child. I certainly wouldn't bill the parents.
DS1 had a friend over this week and I took tem to an expensive activity. It never crossed my mind that the child's mother should even offer to pay for her son. No way would I expect it. Especially if I was that child's grandmother.

LOL! was just imagining giving each child a little purse with cinema money in and doing the same for the grandmother, give her a wink and say "be good and don't lose it".

I think the point is that with 7 children involved "little" treats like cinema tickets add up to a lot of money. 300 quid for a week's holiday expenses sounds like a lot, but that's only 41 quid per child for a week for ice creams/snacks/admission fares etc. I might be prepared to stand an admission price for one or two friends/relatives children, but seven? No way.

Can you not get any offers, mcdonalds happy meals do a voucher for ice age 3, orange phones do bogof on weds, saturday morns at many cinemas do cheap children tickets. google the cinema and see if there are any vouchers to be had.Just a thought and yes I think if she has offered to take them then she should pay at the very least pay for her own ticket.

i think it doesn't matter how much money she has but it does matter how much money you have so as she seems to favour formalised arrangements then formalise the childcare, ask that shes keeps the receipts and give her a budget when she goes out. to get even more anal write out time sheets/schedule and offer to pay her an hourly wage id be interested to hear how that goes down it may be what shes craving as shes naturally quite money conscious and it may work out cheaper! ideally she'd have them for free and shower them with free trips but thats not happening and you can't change her so deal with the person she actually is.
by the way the expenses sheet at the end of the holiday is OUTRAGEOUS! better to laugh then to cry about it though x

Your kids are cute, Kittywise.
Does your mum disapprove of you having a large family?
YANBU if the Granny is taking the credit (with the older children, anyway, who can understand these things) about who pays.
But I think YABU on most the rest, I would want my adult offspring to pay their own way, too, that's probably how your mum views things.
There is no way DC would get to go to cinema twice in one week. That's a major expensive outing. I think scaling down your ambitions and giving your mum a strict spending budget (during outings or when she comes with you on holiday) is the way to go.

You are brave to go on holiday with all of your DC at all, I feel horrified at the idea of going far with my mob (similar ages to yours). .

I have 4dc and no family help at all, so I must say I think your mum is already doing a huge amount for you. I would be grovellingly grateful if anybody could take some of the DC off my hands for even a few hours once a year. I would have to cope with 2-4 DC 24/7/52 weeks a year if they didn't go to school.

yes, you see I can see her perspective perfectly. On a logical level it makes sense. Well, apart from the whole expenses debacle

The reason I posted was because DP found her attitude awful. I still am somewhat confused.

I posted because I wanted to find out what was normal, or at least what happened in other families, what did other grans do.

It seems that most people think that her attitude is not great.

I don't expect anything from her btw and am grateful for what I get. I don't expect her to buy things for the kids but I do find it sad that she will offer to take the kids to the cinema but only if she doesn't have to pay. It's the general attitude that I wish she didn't have.

Money has always been an issue for her, for instance she knows what she has spent, what someone owes her etc down to the last penny

Thank you lljkk

and yes I shall be much more aware re vouchers and special offers!

Yanbu.

But I do think that the financial side of all this should have been discussed.

Perhaps your mother thinks that you are happy to pay for things and that it's not a problem for you. I think that you need to let her know just what the budget is and then she can decide if she wants to contribute or pay the whole thing.
I offer to pay if anyone is taking my child/ren out. Sometimes the offer is accepted and sometimes refused. We agree on what we think is fair all round. But usually their grandparents won't take any money for a treat that they have initiated.

I'm a bit puzzled why you can't take the children on holiday by yourself.
I wouldn't go abroad with mine but I have taken them away in GB.
Given what you say I would opt for taking them away myself before taking someone who seems to make things more difficult or awkward.

I think your DH finds this awful because that was not how he was treated by his grandparents..what about his family Kitty..what are they like?

i have three grandchildren and if i offered to take any of them out i would not have expected their parents to pay for them.I would have the pleasure of spending time with them and that for me was always enough.

The numbers game I don't buy either..my parents have 6 grandchildren from 2 daughters my youngest has no children..but if she did then they would have at least 7..and they would treat them all..just not all at once perhaps..what I find intersting is she offers then wants you to pay..

if it's about spending time then she could just take them to the local park and you can give them money to go to iceland and get some mutil-pack ice-creams

YANBU and YABU!

YANBU:

a) if she offers to do something, she should pay, and certainly pay at least for herself (e.g. if I offered to take out a friend's kids, I would pay, regardless of how many)

b) she should pay for her own expenses while away (even if she doesn't count it as a holiday) - surely she pays for her own food and drink while at home? What's different about being on the I.O.W? I can just about understand that she might want her travel expenses covered.

YABU:

a) the clock, and her general way with money, are not really your business (except insofar as they impinge on points a) and b) above). Actually, you should be pleased she's making sound investments - more money to leave to her large brood of grandkids!

b) GPs do like to lavish attention and money on GKs if they can, but - in fairness to your mother - usually they have 1 or 2 at a time: in your case it's 7, and I can see why this is a big deal. You may have chosen to have a large family, but she certainly didn't.

c) You should confront the paying issue before each venture. If your mum insists you pay for things which you can't afford, then don't do them or let her do them. If you want the kids to know that it's you paying, then tell them (or have the financial discussion in front of them). It's not very "gracious", but then I can see that if your Mum is pretending that she's giving them treats, that might be annoying.

my mum would never turn round and say "oh i bought a ice cream today / dinner for ds you owe me £10" never ever.

The park sounds a good 'free' option.
But she maybe finds it a difficult excursion to control
while cinema might be easier for her to keep control and keep all the children together.

juuule, it's simply because I cannot take that number of kids at the ages they are and be safe. It's not so bad with the oldest 4 but the younger ones are a handful just by themselves, running off in different directions.

For example when we go to the I.O.W in the evenings there is a kids' club on the camp. The older ones want to go, but the younger ones need to be in bed. I couldn't be in 2 places at once. I would be expecting the 9 and 10 year old to act as mini adults and that wouldn't be fair. There are many things like that.

With 2 adults the kids can do the things they're interested in, say one can stay with the younger ones playing in the sand and checking they don't atempt to swim the channel and some else can go rock pooling etc.

With one adult I'd be dragging them round in a huge gang and no one would be satisfied, including me!

I'm very interested to know how you've managed it though!! Perhaps it has to do with the ages of the children involved?

BTW last year, mum said she wouldn't be coming away with us again for various reasons.

I said that was fair enough and thanked her for all the time she had put in over the years and how grateful we were etc etc.

Dp and I were thinking about how to sort things out for this year and she then says she will come away with us again.

I actually think she is getting too old and tired for it all. I can fully appreciate that too.

As it happened I just couldn't stomach the whole 'holiday' business this year. It's costly even for a trip in the uk and I'm absolutely shattered by the time we come home. This year they're booked into lots of holiday clubs and are quite happy

I point out the older 2 who grumble sometimes about not going abroad that 'abroad' is not actually going to disappear and they will have plenty of time during their lives to experince it!

"I actually think she is getting too old and tired for it all. I can fully appreciate that too."

I'm glad you said that

I wonder if she decided it against it last year in a 'never again' way of thinking - like when she'd just got home knackered.
And time's past since and she feels bad about that.
It does sound like she wants to do what she can.

I've been thinking about this a bit and I wondered if there might be a bit of passive aggression coming from your mother to your DH. Do you think the expenses things might have been your mothers way of saying to your husband - look I took your role on this holiday but you are really responsible and so you are going to pay.

The time that she spends with your children is very valuable and if she gets on with your children then that is even better.

Sorry for the arm chair psychology but it seems to me that she might really want to support you and be helpful but is some way annoyed at your husband (and he is certainly annoyed with her).

Is it possible to have a heart to heart with your mother and get things out in the open. Tell her your financial hardships and say you need to find another way of dealing with all the situations etc, etc.

I may have completely mis read all this....but just a perspective to throw in.

So in conclusion not sure who is being unreasonable and am not sure we have a clear idea of her motivations in all this.

Well if it's the amount all in one group then she should take them in separate smaller groups older then younger,boys then girls etc my parents do that sometimes..as for other cheap more controlled things..how about the library (they sometimes have special reading times)..local botanical gardens..local museums are mostly free/cheap..plant some pots in the garden..kids love sunflowers you could see whos would grow fastest..

Tbh..I think you should perhaps consider turning down her offer..my mum does this sometimes and it's just not worth the hassle and whinging

sn0wflake, oh yes. My mother is the master of passive- aggressive and yes she doesn't like dp and resents that she is doing his job by coming on holiday, so I'm sure the billing is a lot to do with that.

You are are very good armchair psych!!

She likes to be in control and she talks the talk, it makes her feel better about herself. But what she does for the kids is borne out of duty rather than affection. She doesn't actually want to spend much time with them.