to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

academicallyTormented - your post @ 17:35:51 is very compelling and very wise.

Yes I know a few £10 million a year bankers who spend £20 million and in deep debt and on a £100k a year drug/alcohol dependency to manage the pressure. I now £100k a year middle class families in deep debt killing themselves to buy the 'dream home' and I see people in your situation doing the best they can and I see people being as you describe living on benefits but Nike trainers and designer clothes.

No one is in a position to judge anyone anyone else. Today the Bank of England annouced it was pumping £50 billon into the banking system to keep it afloat. The debt we have as a society is crushing us.

NATT8 - and your post too is the reality and I would not dare argue with it as I sit in my nice house with my Sky TV and my glass of wine.

I wish you well.

I agree with the wisdom in academicallyTormented's post - the only difference being that over-optimistic bankers or the middle class families over-stretching themselves to meet their own high expectations are already in a cycle of financial success/independence. Yes, they may have got greedy, over-reliant on credit, or just come unstuck by an unexpected bout of bad luck, but they always had a good chance, on the roulette wheel of life, to get themselves back on track. The point is that those people (whether foolish, greedy or just unlucky) got themselves to a point where they were fending for themselves before it all went pear shaped. And they didn't do that by having babies at 16 and spending their benefits on pre-cut fruit!

nybom- to SOME extent i agree with you - my sister in law told me - she has 6 kids and she and dh on benefits- that she would not touch my dh and my jobs - both proffesionally qualified people 4 year degree and no earnings in that time ,as she was better off on benefits - well her words were she wdnt get out of bed to do our job s-I KNOW and appriciate that many people on benefits dont want to be ,but in this case i found it offensive as she swanned off to her subsised gym which i as a working person could not afford to join !!!

poor people shouldnt have children-would that not be easier?

i am joking btw.

i do get upset when dc want to know why they cant have things-such as a wii but its tough luck.we will save and maybe one day theyll have one-maybe?!but we wont cheat the system to get one.we may be 'poor' but were not all criminals or bad parents!

anyone who attacks riven(messages deleted but going by replies it looks like cherylcole someones being mean)is by far the worse(worser?) off person.riven is lovely and clever!

nat what catolgue are you with my payment a month is £50 and also provident £100 i had to pay back double

totally agree cheesesarnie

The DM often adds in housing and council tax benefit to the cash the "scroungers" get to make it sound as if they are better off. Perhaps some people are calculating it in that way.

My sister gets around £160 for herself and two children. It isn't an awful lot. Manageable but leaves no room for emergencies or luxuries. Maybe a bag of pre-grated cheese as a treat once in a blue moon

To alleviate any of your stresses, nybom, may I suggest we give them all a Toyota Prius each? Keeping the engine running whilst stationary would therefore mitigate against some of your disappointments listed above.

Riven - I posted that I knew a girl who has 4 kids and gets £400 a week on benefits - I dont know her personally so cant break down how it all adds up but she gets more than just the normal child benefit/tax credit/income support - whatever it all is, as she has bi-polar disorder, so the council give her extra for that.

Anyway - you must have loads of time on your hands if you can sit and work out how many benefits someone is entitled to!

But as I said in my previous post, cant understand the point in this thread - the OP sounds very snooty and up herself and it seems like she created this just to start an argument!

ah right I see! Thought it was a bit much hassle to do for nothing really!

HShe's got bi-polar? Poor sod, nasty illness, damned good use of money.

Well the benefits system seems to be changing anyway- I e-mailed a query about this thread which would theoretically stop us claiming disability benefits on the basis of there being no spaces with SS for the boys, and the Labour party just sent me a new address which to me is a likely yes.

If taht goes through its council housing for us! Cost them loads more no doubt.

Perhaps the dogs are to be eaten at some point and thus serving as livestock for the family!

I know for a fact that at least where I live drug taking/smoking/alcoholic benefit claimants (and who frequently neglect their children) aren't the minority.

DH hears them bragging about it all the time.

Unfortunately with the crummy prospects and depressing future ahead for most of them it's not surprising htey've gone over to the Dark Side. Am tempted occaisionally myself.

TubofLard - DH is always saying that if we run out of meat by the end of the week the Guinea Pig is for the pot. I think he's joking though

down with the poor

tally ho

yah, someone I know was, like, totally, living on the Kings Road, driving a Maserati and eating from Selfridges Foodhall all on benefits
mm, yah
they say bi-polar or something and the council just drives the money to their house in like a securicor van

Right Gods having those pets around can make for cheap companionship, entertainment, AND insurance so perhaps we can cross that one off the list.

As far as driving Maseratis, my son some time recently in the 8th Ward in New Orleans re-building homes and he said that many people there bought new, luxury cars with the money they were given to rebuild their homes so everywhere he looked there were Hummers and Jags, etc. in front of devastated properties.

TiggyR.. great post 23:01:07

Something about this occurred to me last night

I reckon a lot of how you live somes down to how you lived before you were poor (if there was a before)

Take us (as long as its not to the workhouse ): when DH lost his job we had no ebts bar £5 pcm to the kids book club, all the white goods were up to date and the car in a decent satte of repair if very elderly.

So obviously we're going to have more spare cash than a family needing to buy a washing amchine (actually that'slooking likely now as ours is currently held together with a weaning spoon LOL) and a lump of debt to repay. Iyt's better for the economy on a wider basis though that the debt is rep[aid otherwise small businesses go under etc etc etc

This is the second time in a decade DH has had a period of redundancy: last time we had credit cards and all sorts of newly- together type debt including a mortgage. We ended up choosing to sell our (not suitable for us any more anyway) home and cleared every penny to rent, and absolutely the difference this time is huge. We can go shopping each week without panicking if we can afford to eat. for a start.