to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

No Clemette, growing up in a poor family does not make you Scumderclass. You really can't compare yourself to the group of people I am talking about.

I'm a bit worried about the slippers issue Daftpunk. I wear them to the Post Office. Should I be concerned?

JustWanna do you genuinely not understand that some people can't "go out and make a life for themselves"? Drugs, learning difficulties, disabilities, abuse, mental illness - all of these keep people in the poverty trap. To you on the outside it may not look like a trap, but those of us who have been there, or have worked with the most disadvantaged in society can see the bigger picture (unless you are VS of course!)

'You can throw no end of money and opportunities at some people and they just don't want to take them.'

Just like you can throw no end of taxpayer money at banks and they're still going to pay fat cats huge bonuses and make thousands redundant.

Then we call those made redundant scroungers and scumderclass, but the fat cats walked off with millions of taxpayer pounds and no one bats an eye.

How's that?

..oooh hasn't it got all Daily Mail up in here!...how you can be jealous of people living that life is beyond me...I work in the benefits system and I would have to say that it's a very small minority of people on benefits who want to remain there and even those who are living that life they usually have other social problems..and it's not a great life..they are not happy..so many tears i have seen from people feeling like less of a person because they need assistance..I really think some people need to grow-up...tbh I pay tax and I would prefer my tax money go to a human than to kill and hurt other humans..

VS, did you read my post earlier about my mum living the "scumderclass" life?

NYbom, I typed out a big long post to try and explain it to you, but purple duck has said it better with a few words.

"because they don't have a mortgage".

People sometimes moan about that, but I'd love to have a mortgage. I'm on benefits, and I am saving every penny so that one day when children are at school I can get a job and a mortgage. I never have takeaways, sky, plasma tv, nothing like that. We lead a frugal lifestyle, but so far, my kids aren't aware that they have missed out on anything really. We borrow books from library, I check charity shops before buying anything, never say no thank you to a bag of second hand stuff etc etc etc... I have potatoes growing in the garden. So not everybody who is on benefits lives the lifestyle you think they do. If you met me, you wouldn't realise I was on benefits. So your image of a person on benefits is compounded only by the people you DO realise are on benefits.

i think you should be a little concerned VS...post office one minute,...drug den the next......wearing slippers outside is a dangerous game to play.

oh the ignorance that has been displayed by some on the thread since I went out to the shop (and hallejuah - 3 days late JSA has finally decided to put the money in).

there are millions of people working their fecking arses off, stupid hours a week, for little pay, who no matter what they do, no matter how hard they try they are STUCK there for life. Similar to the Primark situation mentioned - QD stores opened a store here recently - 25 jobs, 1800 people turned up on the "open day" - another 2000 requested application forms over the phone/by post. We live in a town of around 50,000 people.

"Throwing" money or opportunities at people often doesn't work because the issue run SO much deeper - much deeper than I think you'd ever be able to understand. You see ignorance and being thick isn't the reserve of the poor either........

oh I see reading more clearly I'm in the scummerclass - as I told you to fuck off (FUCK OFF again I say).

Sorry about that - must jack in my OU degree I've started while I was a single parent, must force DH to apply for even more (imaginary) jobs...........

expat, everybody I know is outraged by the fat cat banking scandal.

Fred Goodwin had his windows panned in ffs.

The MPs expenses scandal was front page news for weeks, knocking everything else to the back pages. Did you see Margaret Becket get a kicking on Question Time? It's the closest I've seen middle England to revolt.

It's hardly 'not batting an eye'. I've heard Sir Fred called far worse than scrounger or scumdeclass or whatever it was.

Riven et al. I'm talking about the minority who are playing the system - I do keep explaining that, but it keeps being overlooked. I'm not talking about the people in this situation through no fault of their own, so please stop implying that I am.

Mumcentreplus - I think you are confusing the meaning of jealousy and resentment. I resent paying tax to keep the bloke I see outside the pub smoking EVERY day of the week without fail. I don't resent paying it to help the deprived youngster who needs a jump start in life. Not remotely jealous of either of them.

As I said - brother goes in army, sister smokes and drinks her way through teenage pregnancy. One sibling on benefits, other on £120K a year. Same upbringing, different attitudes.

Enough said I think. Had enough of defending my rights to think that higher moral standards and a bit of self respect can make a difference, no matter where you start from in life.

Yes Clem I read your post about your weed smoking mum who makes irresponsible decisions and can't work because she has a mental illness and so feels she has no hope

What is wrong with your mum?

not just different attitudes - got you're so thick are you sure you're not one of the scummerclasses????

FAQ: You only WISH you were scumderclass you could top trump this debate. -sigh-

Does it make a difference? She has schizophrenia and biploar personality disorder. She also has a widescreen TV - we bought her one because she spends 90% of her waking hours watching TV because she is unable to do much else. So, technically she sits on her arse watching Jeremy Kyle on her widescreen TV smoking dope.

Is that one of your "geunine" ones?

I don't agree with VS's language either but she has said repeatedly that by definition, nobody on here is in her so called scummerclass.

I find this frustrating. We aren't talking about all benefit claimants. We're talking about a small minority. So why insist that this applies to you when it doesn't?

"As I said - brother goes in army, sister smokes and drinks her way through teenage pregnancy. One sibling on benefits, other on £120K a year. Same upbringing, different attitudes."

Or different abilities/aptitudes/educational opportunities/peer group? It could be that those you describe are lazy and feckless, but it is not always as straightforward as that.

PS - just to repeat, benafits are not paid for out of your taxes.

oh come on it's blatantly obvious that at least 2 people on this thread think that most people are on benefits because they're too lazy, haven't take the opportunities taken to them (what opportunities many would say). Most of it's know it's a tiny minority of claimants they're talking about - but they're tarring everyone with the same brush and think that most of us/them are taking the piss.

Ah the emotive use of your mother. Are you going to tell me your daddy's dead next Clem?

As I said earlier in this thread Clem... (were you paying attention as you keep on insisting that I pore over your posts -tsk!) Anyway as I said before, I don't begrudge people with genuine disabilities being on benefits.

Keep up eh?

what about those without disabilties who are currently stuck on benefits - plenty of those around at the moment.

Resentment..ok..so it's more of an anger, spite, bitterness issue?....still think there's a tad of into the mix..all you have to do is stop working and then you could have the fantastic life they lead..I mean smoking everyday outside of the pub..friggin hell thats the life!