to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

VS, shame you combined the two groups then when you said "the poor" had left school at 15 and were too thick to use the internet.

What irritates me is that this tiny minority is used as shorthand for working class/poor/less well off, when they are so patently not representative of a whole swathe of society.

Have you considered resigning, given that you hate the people you are paid to work with?

Do you consider all people who are on benefits to be part of the 'Scumder' class VS?

Riven - are you suggesting I'm making it up? LOL... oh dear.

What do you mean "what would I do"? Resent them? Resent that I work my ass off and pay a lot of tax and don't get time or money enough to go to the pub everyday, yes. Couldn't actually give a crap about them personally. Not sure what your point is Riven.

D'you know, I hate slippers, I'd never wear em inside or out of the house.
Are they those huge fluffy dog ones?

closes door quietly so no one notices her.

I can't imagine anything more depressing than my only avenue for escape from a shitty life being special brew and the pub. Why would you resent someone living a possibly less fulfilled life than your own with fewer opportunities.
I have always found this odd - do people really believe that a widescreen TV and chance to drink yourself into oblivion, in some way make up for a life surrounded by drugs, violence, fear and depression? I grew up amongst this - it was only through good teaching that I was able to escape. I would prefer to work 12 hours a day and pay 80% tax than have to live the life that many of childhood neighbours have to.

Justwanna, VS, etc - I do know people like that. But what I don't understand is why they make you so angry. Why do you resent them?! They live in shitty housing, with horrible neighbours, have no advantages in life, no support to ever change anything, and once their kids have grown up, they either end up wiht even less money in benefits or have to try and get a job with zero work experience. What do the people that make up this group (and it is a tiny minority of people who are on benefits) have that you don't?! Yes you work hard and pay for everything yourself, however you don't find yourself sitting in a pub midmorning with your kids, and thinking that is all that life is ever going to offer you.

OP,Itoo wonder how people manage to have all those things whilston benefits.
We have found ourselves in the unfortunate position of currently being on benefits.
We are receiving £88 a week JSA[as we are paying back a crisis loan of £12 a week]Tax credits and child benefits are still sorting our claim after 4 months of us returning to Uk from R.O.I].I am starting a return to nursing course in Oct and dp is actively seeking work[he has an MSC,don't you know].I could nver have afforded the things outlined in your op before redundancy either.
I would imagine that people have loans and catalogues etc,because if you live on benefits for any length of time I think you must be desperate for some fun stuff[pretty much like when you work hard and want to have some treats]
There are loads of working people in the poo because they have remortgaged their property and have credit here and there etc.
We are in a desperate state and at wits end at the moment.
So YANBU and YABU

Justwannasay:-yeah I think it's easy to look at the world with rose tinted specs when you have no experience of it. I used to want to 'save' people and make all sorts of excuses for them. You can throw no end of money and opportunities at some people and they just don't want to take them.

Lizzylou: I call them scumderclass as they contribute nothing to society. Tis all about the 'take'. I have no time for mooches.

Brie: I'd say low wage outside of London is £13k or under. This would be a low wage for someone who has a family to support.

x-posted with clemette

Really want this point answered though, as it makes me livid!!

VS - if you read the responses, you will see that there are poeple disagreeing with you that have expereinced the world you are talking about, and not from behind a desk either.

Thunderduck: NO I don't consider all people on benefits to be the Scumderclass. I'm sure there are some people with genuine disabilities out there-they are few and far between though

Yes but VS, you are ignoring those of us who have had experience of it, and still don't condemn.

Do you still stand by: "IMHO poor people are usually poor because they have no self control. They can't stop themselves from paying £2.75 for a packet of twisty cheese strings because they are dazzled by the packaging and the amazing twistiness of it all."

I'll ask again - is this ALL "poor" people?

See your point now Riven. But actually, of this family, the youngest boy left to join the army. So yes, shit upbringing, but it didn't stop him making a go of his life.

Similarly, family I know, grew up in REALLY rough block of flats. One sibling is on benefits... other is area manager for large company, earns a fortune. Some people just have to take responsibility for their own lives and pay their own way. Sorry, but they just do.

Ok, I think that people who have kids without the means to support them but have no other reason why they can't work should be supported for 2 or 3 years (or til the child goes to school at the most) and then they should be forced into a job - there are loads of jobs out there if people look for them. Then we would not have so many people having loads of kids as a 'career' and a way to get a bigger free house. A teacher friend of mine told of a family who had 3 boys but kept having kids until they got a girl because opposite sex kids = bigger house with more bedrooms. That needs to stop.

I'm not a council worker, so don't ask me how I would police it, but this happens in other countries, so it should happen here. This is why we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe - it's a good idea to have a kid straight out of school - saves you having to bother getting a job!!! I SEE it happen all the time round here. I don't begrudge looking after people who genuinely need help, but I do when they are just lazy slobs who are playing the system.

JemL - what I resent is working hard and paying a lot of tax to support people who simply can't be bothered to work.

End of story.

Jem:- They may have experienced being poor, but i'd bet my bottom dollar that they've never been the sort of folk i'm talking about. They wouldn't be on mumsnet if they were.

For the millionth time - if you have a baby straight out of school (ie at 16) you don't qualify for anything other than the bare minimum of benefits. As you say, you don't work in this area. In 12 years of teaching, and NCT antenatal work I have NEVER met a teenage mum who did it to get a bloody flat. Grrr.

Disabilities aren't the only legitimate reason why people would have to go on benefits.

Taxes don't pay for benefits.

JemL It is not about what life OFFERS you - it is about what you GO OUT AND MAKE of life for yourself! And you're not going to get anything out of life by sitting in a pub.

That is the kind of attitude that get's people into this kind of mess in the first place, waiting for life to offer it to you on a plate!

VS....there will always be wasters...nothing will ever change that...

what did you think of the MPs expenses "scandal"....£20,000 to have a moat cleaned.?....tax payers money...fucking bastards!!....come the revolution comrade we'll all be down the pub in our slippers drinking mucho vodka!