to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

But couldn't my taxes go into something better like education and the NHS rather than to people who CHOSE not to work or help themselves out of a 'stuck' situation.

And I am being very specific (on purpose) sticking to a case that I know so as not to generalise - and I AM bailing them out...all the time.

Alot of people who claim benefits are disabled or carers. How do you suggest they 'work' themselves out of their situation?

yy fio, good call

VT u are quite right, it does catch up with you, i am living proof.

oh and skyblu, you mention NHS being a 'better' way of spending your taxes, but what do you think about the billions wasted on things like liver transplants to alcholics who then destroy the transplant.. or smokers with lung cancer?
do you think they deserve not to be treated i suppose?

skyblu - can I recommend a book called "Estates" - it's by Lynsey Hanley - and it has a section on "the wall in the head" - which explain much better than I ever could the psychological barriers to getting out of a "stuck" situation.

You also seem to forget that there are millions of working poor in this country - who will work like dogs all their lives - and still be in the same situation when they finally retire.

As I have said in many of my previous posts -I have no problem at all with disabled people/carers and those UNABLE to work themselves out of their situation or help themselves any further than they already do.

People in this situation can genuinely describe themselves as poor.

My problem lies with the ABLE but IRRESPONSIBLE.

Personally speaking...(not wanting to hijack from the OP's point or opinion)

then stop bailing them out Skyblu. You are not legally obliged to give of your money and time to anyone you don't wish to other than the government.

FAQ - yep me too!!!!

But i don't claim to be poor.

Skyblu are you just reffering to people on benefits now? or are we still talking about all poor people? This specific case you are talking about? How are you bailing them out?

You dont get to choose where your taxes go, no.

The difference between Ladyofthebathtub's post and the OP is that Lady thought about how to word her post so as not to offend MNetters who are not financially solvent. Or poor or however you want to term it.

OP just got the rolled up Daily Mail out and pounded on the table with it.

She brought in things like FF vs BF which is a topic that brings out a very emotive response and then weakened her "argument" with ridiculous notions such as the precut apples.

Mme Lindt

i never mentioned precut apples?!? it was a different person that brought that up.

but there are irresponsible people in this country who earn good wages and spend their money in foolish ways as well.

Irresponsible with money is not something that's specific to the financially poor.

Not just apples
"ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids"

Op you said 'ready cut fruit' since when were apples not a fruit?

"ready cut fruit" is in your OP

What is that then? I thought you meant the wee bags of apples.

And what about your nonsence about FF. You do understand how many Mnetters feel terribly guilty about their failure to BF?

Exactly FAQ, and people who spend their money irresponsibly are always going to end up out of pocket, i know people who earn a good wage, spend it unwisely then claim they are 'skint', why is it only poor people who are not allowed to moan about being skint?

"why is it only poor people who are not allowed to moan about being skint? "

because we are unworthy and don't work

OP out of all the posts asking for your feedback on here, you choose to answer a post about pre cut apples

How about answering the one about...erm ...'what is your point exactly?'

I said if I was smart that I would
Save up for a piece of string
And a rock to wind the string around
Everybody wants a rock
To wind a piece of string around

I posted earlier on this thread with an example of a family member who basically fritters money, won't use any second hand toys or books for her kids and then pleads povery to us and my MIL to guilt us into helping because we don't want to see her kids go short.

She was brought up with exactly the same advantages - or lack of them - as my DH and his other siblings, none of whom expect others to support them.

If that is the sort of person the OP is refering to then I can understand how annoying she finds it. But there isn't an easy answer - do you stop supporting family members - does the state only support the 'deserving poor'?

I;m not talking about just being IRRESPONSIBLE with money.

Of course their are poeple on good wages that are irresponsible with money. That's their look out if they earned it.

I'm talking about people being generally irresponsible in how they go about life.
having a 5th baby when you can't afford the 4 you've already got. Buying a new phone when you'll not have enough left for electric. Getting 2 dogs when you say you can't afford a new school uniform...that type of thing.
NOT getting a job even though your kids are all at school

...and all the while, claiming benefits BECAUSE YOU SAY you are poor

Notyummy - EXACTLY!

well if they are claimimgn benefits properly and getting them then they are poor .

ooh lets shoehorn in a complusory sterilisation angle too shall we

The truly poor don't have all the electronic gadgets that are in many so called 'poor' peoples houses. Their kids have phones, wii etc, ipods all the stuff that costs alot.