to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

another thread, sorry

MotherPi - yes, I agree. I was simply trying to point out that there is a clear "class" (dodgy term, I realise) implication in what she was writing.

We are going round in circles. OP was clearly talking about people claiming benefits and providing themselves with what she considers "luxury goods". and as has become clear throughout this thread this is often done through credit. The point is someday, someone has to pay...

"poor people can choose to do as they like. i have no porblem WHATSOEVER with that. i accept that most poor people work very hard to give their kids a future. poor people are not inferior to rich people. i don't see myself as being superior to anybody.

you are constantly making wild assumptions about me whilst at the same time telling me i am ill-informed which i am not. "

Well, erm... what's your point then? If "poor people" can do as they like, why are you berating them for their choices?

being poor has nothing to do with class

Ladyofthe..
If people thought that OP was raising the issue to stimulate academic debate I doubt anyone would've taken offence. It was the tone and manner i nwhich it was put that was upsetting.
Of course wondering what causes people to spend in a seemingly illogical way is fine, and you're right, there is a lot of literature on it. The main explantion (an academic view,not mine)is that poor people spend money on 'crutches' such as booze, cigs etc to help them cope with the stigma of being poor and that they spend beyond their means on things like expensive food, clothes etc to disgise the fact they're poor. This is rather outdated now, but you're perfectly correct in saying this sort of debate exists, research has been done etc.
But I really don't think that's what the OP was getting at.

Mezley - yes, i agree.

However, in the 2 cases that I actually know about, (which are the ones that get my goat) - credit is not available (due to the absence of jobs and previous CCJs) so these luzury items are purchased at the expence of basics - and THEN the person claims how poor they are and how hard life is.

sheep it's crazy - I'm almost thinking of buying a cow (on credit of course )

skyblu yes, that is what i meant by "poor"!

so, to summarize my original post:

i was wondering why a relatively large propotion (not meaning the majority) of those not so wealthy people (on benefits or not) manage to afford a big proportion of the points i listed. how they are able to make choices even someone with more money wouldn't make.

I think what the OP has totally missed the point on is that "being poor" (a proper definition - not a thesaurus one ) is SO much more than just a lack of money.

because they don't have savings, pensions, insurances and investments?

FAQ what do you consider as "poor?"

Exactly, FioFio!

That's the point I was trying to make earlier.

Spending your available income on non-essentials like having your nails done is much cheaper than paying a mortgage, paying into a pension, etc. - all those sensible things people do which makes them feel, at the end of the month, like they have no disposable income and makes them resent the family down the street who earn less, but somehow have a plasma tv. etc. etc. Yet, in the long run, who is better off?

People live within their means, how they choose to do that is up to them, if they would rather spend money on acrilic nails and hair do's than life insurance and pensions, thats up to them.

To be clear though...if someone spends THEIR money on luxeries instead of basics but DIDN'T claim THEMSELVES to be 'poor' OR worked to earn money/tried to help themselves - then I wouldn't give a stuff - none of my buisness.

I get irate because am the one who has to bail out this particular situation (through sacrifices that I have to make, through my taxes and with my earnings) when I certainly do not have the luxuries that they do.

thank you for that post "LadyoftheBathtub". that is exactly where I am coming from.

LadyoftheBathtub, I don't think nyboms post came across the way you are describing though.
I have friends who budget way better than me and I'd love to know how they do it, but if that was what nybom meant why say 'why don't these people save more'.

being poor is about feeling powerless because you feel "stuck" in the situation, the stress that comes with trying to make a budget stretch, not being able participate in the society in which you live, it's about a lack of opportunities, a lack of vision for your own future (often because the vision has never been shown to you in a realistic way), lack of believe in your own future and potentional because the situation you find yourself in.

VinegarTits - great point and agree totally, IF they are living within their means.

BUT what about when they go over their means because they've spent their means on a nother new swanky camera phone and they then sob that they are so poor they have no money for electric and the kids are sitting in the dark.

This happens.

x-post
nybom why take such a patronising tone then?

But you are not bailing anyone out skyblu, the sacifices and choices you make are not directly affected by some poor person who is spending their money on luxuries, you make those sacrifices and choices regardless of what other people spend their money on, you pay taxes regarless

we do have life insurance as it happens - costs a hell of a lot more than any of the other little "luxuries" I manage to squeeze into our tight budget.

FAQ, they have MINIATURE cows now!

And they come in DAIRY ~10 litres per day vs a full size cow which can do 1000s

If they are not living within their means then they are doing it by borrowing credit, which will eventually dry up and have to be paid back

LOL Maren -