to feel that 'young mums' shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush?

[ElieRM]

Am about to turn 19and DD is 7 wksold.At baby clinic, which I attend fortnightly to get DD weighed and discuss the odd issue with HV, have made a great deal of effort to be friendly to other mums, all of whom are 30+. Can never get more than a curt 'hello', often attract sneaky, unpleasant looks and feel although I'm being judged because of my age. Other mums are happy to sit and chat together, I tend to leave as soon as all necessary business is completed.
Also often attract unpleasant looks when out and about; general concencus of opinion about younger mums seems to be very Daily Mail, all on benefits, single, no prospects, councilhouses etc etc
I KNOW not everyone thinks this, but AIBU to feel a little hard done by? After all, DP and I are in a comitted relationship, we dote on DD and are both students' DP is working flat out to support us over summer, and we're both fully intending on completing our degrees and paying our way!
Often see other young mums swearing at kids, shouting etc and can completly understand why people form opinions. However, should we not be judged on our indivual merits, both as parents and people, rather then simply by the age we gave birth?

NOT that I feel the need to justify myself to you, Posie, but the 16 yr old in question is my highly intelligent, mature and "sorted" 16 yr old god daughter. She is pretty much an adult, and longer needs mothering from me so has progressed seamlessly into being a friend. We may not share all the same interests, but the same is true of all my friends- I learn from her and she learns from me.

Do you really only make friends with people who are identical to you? That would be a sad little world indeed.

I should also that one particular colleague was very rude about me having my first at 25. I mean, wtf did it have to do with her in the first place? And in what world is 25 too young to have a baby?

Ultimately I think it boils down to the fact that some women are never going to be good mothers, weather they have their first DC at 15 or 40. If they lack maternal instinct, drive, love for their children, the ability to keep a home clean and resonably tidy, the desire to read to their children or take them on walks in the woods/local park etc, all activities which are free and do-able by everyone.
The think is that often the women who would struggle to be mums at 40 have their first children as teenagers anyway, because of a whole host of socio-economic issues. If you live in an area where a committed, long term adult relationship is virtually non existant you won't strive for that, if no-one goes to school/college/university after the age of 16 you might not think about that, if having a baby at 16 won't affect your live chances in any way compared to you having a child at 26 or 36 etc why wait 10/20 years?

I'm educated, intelligent, and, (through no fault of my own - I know it seems to be a dirty phrase) thoroughly 'middle-class'. When I found out I was pregnant no-one could believe I was keeping my baby, my headteacher and form tutor both tried to gently persuade me to have an abortion or give DD up for adoption, the midwives I met all assumed I'd left school at 16 with no qualifications, one tried to tell me about a course at the local FE college for young mums to do entry level english and maths and a child development GCSE she nearly fell off her chair when I told her I had 9A* and 1A at GCSE and planned to go to University. It was assumed because I was young I wouldn't even contemplate breastfeeding. I was offered free 'quit smoking' classes yet I've never even held a cigarette! I was frequently spoken down to and patronised by proffessionals who I'm probably just as clever as, if not more so.
The only times I was spoken to as if I had two brain cells to rub together was when my parents (a Dr and a nurse) accompanied me to the appointments, they always started with the health care worker talking to my parents before realising from my contributions I actually understood what they were talking about!

I think that I have coped fine having a child so young and while its not the age I'd have chosen to start my family being so young had its advantages, I had a 2 hour labour and left hospital 24 hours later in my size 6 skinny jeans, (I doubt that would have happened if I'd been 20 years older ) i never wore maternity clothes (thereby saving loads of money) and just bought size 10 stuff from primark, I was up and going for a jog while dd slept a week after having her!
I think many of my friends and contempories would be brilliant mothers despite their young age but I appreciate most of them would probably have an abortion as they have long term career aspirations which would be made harder by having child.

And finally not all the tracksuit wearing girls with hoop earrings and croydon facelifts are bad mothers, I go to a young mums mother and baby group, I'm the only mum there with 5A*-Cs at GCSE, I'm the only one who went to a grammar school, I'm the only one there who likes to wear Jack Wills, Abercrombie and All Saints but that doesn't make me a better mother, I have a friend who's 16, she smoked from the age of 11 but quit when she got pregnant, she doesn't drink, she breast-feed for 9months, she buys fresh fruit and veg and makes healthy meals for her DD, they go and feed the ducks, walk in the local woods and read stories at bedtime. If you saw her, I have no doubt you would judge her in her kappa tracksuit with her pram. But she is as good a mother as any.

Gosh this is a bit of an epic post, sorry

academically I think the posts about tracksuits etc were about playing up to the DM stereotype. Certainly my own post in a similar vein was ironic.

There are a lot of small minded people out there. I get some of the behaviours you have described and I fit the conventional stereotype quite nicely (happily married, own my own home, have a professional job etc) but people make assumptions

I think you have to guard against being over-sensitive. There's always some miserable minny out there happy to look askance - regardless of age or circumstances.

My ante-natal class cohort were VILE. All of them wore hideous maternity frocks with an air of complete self-satisfaction and all of them came across as the sort of people who, in the Middle Ages, would have greeted a stranger by poking them to death with a sharp sticks.

All except one, that is. The other pregnant woman who had the sheer cheek to look ever so slightly different - we both had hair dyed in a rather mutinous shade and dressed as ourselves rather than Stepford Wives. Neither of us had husbands in attendance because they'd gone to one class and been spooked by being asked to do role play. Result being that they'd escaped to the pub during the tea break. So in addition to looking "wrong", we clearly hadn't captured the right sort of man and were obviously planning careers as feckless single mothers. Not, it has to be said that we gave a feck...

What I'm saying, in a muddled and anecdotal manner, is that you can't avoid people having pre-conceived ideas about you but you can avoid being the slightest bit bothered.

'My ante-natal class cohort were VILE. All of them wore hideous maternity frocks with an air of complete self-satisfaction and all of them came across as the sort of people who, in the Middle Ages, would have greeted a stranger by poking them to death with a sharp sticks.'
Haha, brilliant! Cliched as it is, I wonder if this sort of attitude is a mask for insecurity? Often happy, confident people do not need to express disapproval of those theydon't know. Or form cliques based around collective smug superiority. If you're different but happy, it isn't you with the problem.

Please ignore them.

I have had nasty comments as a WOHM. I have had comments about being an older mum. I have had comments about bfing for longer than normal. Life is full of people who make judgements. Who cares? Let it go. The person who will be damaged by their opinion is you, but only if you allow it to happen.

Ormirian i think you are right. People will disagree and think you are doing it wrong whether you bf or ff, use disposibles or reusables, have a natural birth or cs, go organic or don't. The best thing is to choose your own way for your own reasons.

academic your post did make me laugh But seriously, congratulations, it sounds like you have done very well like nearly all the young mums i have come across on this site. I think i remember only one (who i think was a troll anyhow) that was what the daily mail would have you believe a ym was actually like

Sorry, that last should have been a

Duchesse I am still about you having a 'friendship' with a 16 year old. Especially one that you are a guardian of.....

Why, Posie, why? She is a delightfylly bright girl, who is able to discuss a wie range of topics with interest. I really don't understand your scepticism. I'm intrigued that you've latched onto the 16 yr old rather than the much older people I'm friends with. Why do you find it odder that I can be friends with a person 20 odd years younger than me than with someone 40 years older? Especially as I'm never actually likely to be in a mothering position for her now. At best educational guidance is what I will be providing, which is what I've been doing all along anyway.

How odd Posie. One of my close friends I met when I was 19 and she was 41. I'm in my 30s now. Is it OK for me to be friends with her yet?

I just can't see it....I just think relationships where the age gap is very large and one person is in their teens is a different sort of relationship than just straight forward friendship......

After posting it struck me I was probably 20, rather than 19. Not that I think the extra year made a marked difference.

Yes, in some senses you're right. She probably had more of a mentor-friend type role in the first few years. But friendships evolve. All of them do.

Posie to explain myself i was politely trying to say i think your terribly small minded. I say thais as you say you wouldnt consider friendships with people of different ages because of their age- yours is a life that will be monotonous in its relations and interactions, and not as enriched as it could be.

the persons i am friends with, im friend with because they show me love guidance and friendship, we have fun together, we learn and advise one and other and we support each other, that is what friends do irrespective of age.

You seem to suggest that you cannot have a younger friend as they may depend on you, or need more from the friendship, i would counter that by saying, once again, not age specific. As a friend you support one and other when needed, and some friends may need more than others. what would prevent you from having younger friends, or indeed older friends is an inability to relate, and find common ground, not a problem i suffer with.

I agree with the majority of other posters, and throughly intend to take what im given in as jovial a manner as possible, because like ellie believe, i think people who feel the need to speculate and comment on others lives in a negative way are lacking in there own lives.

What a load of crap. I have not at any juncture said that I would not consider friendships with people of other ages. I have said I wouldn't court a friendship with a person barely out of childhood, you know only just able to vote, either never or only just out of full time education. I would not have anything in common with a person in their teens.

BTW not that my friends all share my demographic but I could, in theory, have friends all born the same year as me and it would and could be enriching and fulfilling. Many of my old friends are school friends, they represent a huge variety from award winning graphic designer, millionaires, actors, glamour model, publican, plumber and on and on.....can't quite find the monotony.

YANBU I know how it feels as was a very young mum too in an affluent area with mostly mums 35+. People were abit judgy but once they saw I was a good mum they were fine with me. I am in my 30s now and feel more accepted, it is wrong that people judge.

well its my opinion based on my interpretation of what you have said. You seem to dismiss younger people:

" wouldn't court a friendship with a person barely out of childhood, you know only just able to vote, either never or only just out of full time education. I would not have anything in common with a person in their teens."

How do you know you wouldnt have anything in common? that is what bothers me your inability to even consider that a younger person may have something intelligent and interesting to say, that is quite a demoralising dismissal on your part. in fact your whole tone of the above is dissmissive and downright rude tbh, "barely out of childhood" is a sweeping generalisation, some of us had lived independently for several years at that juncture in our lives, child hood ends when one takes responsibility for ones self ones actions and ones well being. and what the fuck has voting to do with anything?? voting has done the country such good under the current labour rule...

You are infuriating in your small mindedness!

I was illustrating the age at which legally you become an adult. I did not say that a young person had nothing valuable to say, nothing interesting or intelligent....Good Gracious do you always misinterpret in such seismic ways?

I like talking to younger people, investing in them but I wouldn't seek a 19 year old out at a toddler group when there were people there my age, all things being equal.

i yes i do, always, must be my age

i think ill leave my discussion wiith you at the fact that i dont like your point of view and you dont like mine. you have basically said you wouldnt pick to talk to me bacause i am young, had you the chance to talk to someone who seemed more your age, your choice is uppose and i cannot make you see the disparity in that.

id much rather stick to being part of the general discussion, than defending myself and personally answering you, after this is a forum for various opinions, and i will gain nothing from yours. best of luck

YANBU - i know of mums as young as you and have become friends with them - we have children the same age and i see that as our connecting bond. However i must admit that when i see a young mum my first inclination is to have a sneaky look sideways - not at how young they are in terms of motherhood, but at how jealous i am of their beautiful fresh faced skin and how they will have the energy to run around with their kids when they a little older. Gah - i miss my youth. Am sure it is just jealousy from the others and the ones that are worth making friends with you will be the ones who say hello back.

7 weeks is still young though and maybe the other mums are all just in that early stage of motherhood where you do anything to get through the day and are therefore unaware at how rude they are being?

You sound lovely and hope you juggle degree with parenthood as easily as possible!

Hunnie, you have given me plenty of reasons not to talk to you, your age wouldn't make the top three.

No capitals, little bits of text speak and 'hunnie' as part of your MN name beat 22 years old (is that teens? I think not)anyday......

Now I am off to bed as the glasses of wine have seeped through my veins and I fear I may be insulting......

7 weks? Aw2, envious!

YANBU

My sister's friend had her first at 14, her first surviving baby at 16. Bloody fabulous Mother in so many ways- she has coped with SN (epilepsy, diabetes), divorce, losing another baby at birth and is an amazing role model.

A quick anecdote< years ago (she's been gone a decade) my Nan was driving with my Grandad and saw in front of her a young girlpushing a buggy, a double one. My Nan started maing lud comments out the window etc (had her moments my Nan) and being nasty.

A few materes on theyw ere massively embrased to spot it was ion fact my sister pushing the buggy for the family of solictors she was assisting as her NNEB course.

People who judge on such a flimsy basis aren't worthy of your attention.

Posie - on the wine at 15.50 .... and you have the audacity to judge others - its called AA love and the calls normally freephone!

So now as well as my age (which is not a teen but still considered young -see the OP) im not worthy of your attention for a few contractions of written speech, failing to spell check my writing and for picking a random phrase as a user name..well sing me up for some sort of program now, save my little soul! Seriously feck orf...

peachy the friend you mention sounds amazing, very risilient (cant spell that one?!) to go through the trauma of loosing a child is awful at any age, i can only imagine!
at your nan though! bet she -ed after!!