in asking for my ex's girlfriends address when my kids stay there?

[altern8gal]

Long and messy 10 year history with ex, he plays games etc but that's a whole different story! After not seeing the kids for 6 weeks I have yet again initiated contact and arranged for him to take our kids for the weekend, with some minimal ground rules, they stay at his flat, he doesn't let them on the balcony etc etc....
He took them at 4pm, and at 9pm I ring my eldest (9) to check he and his 2yr old brother are ok. My son informs me they are not at his dad's but at the new girlfriends house and are staying...I make sure son is ok and keep calm as he gets upset easily, he also begged me to not tell his dad that I knew where they were!
Next day, I try to investigate where my boys are staying, without antagonising the ex...which doesn't go to plan and he rings up screaming and shouting, saying I have no right to know where my kids are or what they are doing whilst in his care. I try to explain calmly that of course it is important to know where they are incase of accident etc etc - he hangs up after some more ranting!
I am happy for the kids to stay with ex & Gf, as she is actually probably more reliable and trustworthy than him, but am I being unreasonable in asking for her address?? I am reluctant to let my kids go next time, but then I end up looking like the bad person again! Any comments welcome!

I don't understan how knowing where your kids are in advance helps if they have an emergency. I don't know where exactly my kids are to day, but know that if there was an emergency my ex would tell me about it and tell me where they are. also if I have an emergency then I'd phone his mobile, as he's more reliable re mobile carriage than my kids or me. To me the 2 things are unconnected.
I don't see the point in not telling your ex where you are for the sake of it, that's just being childish, but if my ex isn't sure where he's going to be that's fair enough.
My husband's ex used to refuse to tell him where she was taking the kids on holiday, so resident as well as nonres parents can be childish in this respect, and women can be just as bad as men. Alot of separated parents need to be less childish and controlling.

hmm - nobody seems to be able to answer the emergency/needing to know the address question

far too many posts to read them all, but surely the issue here was that he said the children would be staying with him at his address - but lied to the OP and took them to his girl friends house - and made the older child so anxious he had to ask mum not to let on that she had found out?

Under these circumstances, i think the OP has every right to expect her ex to say where the children are spending the night and stick to it.

And God forbid, if I am ever in the girl friends position, I would feel awful if i had someone elses kids under my roof with out them knowing about it, i would not want to be complicit in the deception.

its courtesy, practicality, and in the best interests of the children.

Maybe the reason the child was so anxious was that the mother is very controlling. DSS gets very anxious if DH is going to be 5 mins dropping him off after a visit, because his mother goes mad at the slightest thing. In fact he is the most anxious child I have come across, and I attribute this to her parenting style.

Maybe if the mother is more relaxed and less anxious to be in control over the details, the child will also relax

but is the OP very controlling - how do we know?

The trouble with these threads is that so much assumption goes on, and inevitably each respondent brings their own specific situation/experience to their replies, perhaps assuming that the OPs situation is the same - but is it?

I said "maybe" - it seems strange that a carefree 9 y/o would be anxious about telling his mother where he was. Why would he assume there was a problem?

Wow, kinda shocked at how people are racing to judge me and insult me when they have totally misunderstood me and not listened to me.

FWIW, not that I should waste time explaining myself to people who've called me a bigot and told me to fuck off and accused me of misandry...

I think almost all people are good people. And that includeds men. I think almost all men are good people and good fathers.

But...... and the statistics back this up, so there really is no point arguing, most parents who badly let down their children happen to be men.

If there is going to be a scrap over residency, then, in an already imperfect World, I would rather see the fathers suffer at the hands of their X's than children have to be torn in two and possibly placed in dangerous or inappropriate situations. I see this as the lesser of two evils.

None of you need have any concern for my children . They are brought up to think the best of everybody. I am single, but because I am idependent, positive and not bitter, I have close male friends and brothers and cousins and I'm close to all of them. My children see their Dad, because despite beating me to a pulp on a regular basis, he can come and see them in our home (and I clear off for his convenience) whenever he likes. He can come twice as often if he likes. NObody's stopping him

So anybody who accuses me of having a skewed viewpoint is barking up the wrong tree. I am talking about the statistics and the greater good.

Thank you RIMOD and NEEDCOFFEE! Nice to know that some people who I know are intelligent and have empathy can see where I'm coming from.

Oh yeah, and for those of you concerned about the wellbeing of my children, I wouldn't encourage them to throw words like bigot and fuck off around lightly when they clearly hadn't even read the other person's point properly.

Exactly.

The assumption has been that the mum is controlling, but what if the dad has said something along the lines of...don't tell mum you are here....

I didn't make an assumption, I said "maybe"

Mrs Schofield....If I was the controlling type I wouldn't have let my ex have access to the children in the first place - it was me who initiated contact, and not for the first time...once he did not bother with his son for 2 years!!! Yet my kids want to see their dad so I make the arrangements...it will be only be a matter of time before he drops them like hot potatoes again!

My son is the least anxious child I know, however, he was worried he would get in trouble off his dad for telling me where they were staying - a controlling issue on my ex's part maybe?

Ok, the emergency address situation. I agree there is nothing I can do until I am contacted about an emergency, but if something did happen I'd like to be able to get there asap, without waiting for my ex to go round the houses 50 times before giving me an address,which is what he would likely do!

If there has been a problem with my kids,whilst in my care, and I have had to contact him to come round to the house, he has been able to come straight here, because he knows where I live...I am only asking for the same thing in return! I haven't pressed the issue, I asked once, after finding out they weren't where was agreed, and after alot of swearing/shouting & name calling on his part, the phone was hung up!

MaggieBeaBeau

'But...... and the statistics back this up, so there really is no point arguing, most parents who badly let down their children happen to be men.'

Can you provide a link to these statistics?

Yes, I'd be interested in a link to some statistics too. I must admit I've always thought that when people on here say things like "most parents who let their children down happen to be men" or things like "it's more common for men not to be interested in their children than for women to prevent contact" are just speaking from their own experience within their circle of friends or people they know/hear about, rather than any sort of published research or statistics. I might have to rethink that .

It's really hard to communicate with people who aren't reading my posts and think that I'm against access. I'm for access.

Confused, are you seriously going to argue that more parents who let their children down are women? That's not a sensible argument to pursue.

I have said already that I believe most men are good, and most fathers are good fathers, so there's no reason to jump on some bandwagon to attack me.

LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING. I refer back to part of my earlier post

If there is going to be a scrap over residency, then, in an already imperfect World, I would rather see the fathers suffer at the hands of their X's than children have to be torn in two and possibly placed in dangerous or inappropriate situations. I see this as the lesser of two evils.

Yeah, you're for access provided mothers get to control it all. Pfft.

Link to your statistics over here too, please!

...biological mums and dads have roughly equal statistics for murder of their children. The stats for dad's though are muddied though as non biological dads are lumped in with them. Mothers tend to kill the majority of newborns with dads having higher stats for older children.
Also as regards which gender is the more important as parents, it depends on the person not the gender. The stately home threads are full of examples of horrendous mothers, so to say mothers are more a parent than a father is ludicrous. Love is as love does. Having the ability to carry and give birth to baby aint an exclusive criteria for super parent!

Anyway back to alterngal, does your ex have PR (parental responsibility) for the children?

"Killings of children by a natural parent are committed in roughly equal proportions by mothers (47%) and fathers (53%)"
But as I said a lot of stats for fathers lump in step dads.
Brookman and Maguire (2003) Reducing homicide: a review of the possibilities

What do you mean when you "I would rather see the fathers suffer at the hands of their X's", Maggie?

Oh and here is an article about step fathers and child murder...
"In 1988, US data showed that children aged up to two are at about 100 times greater risk of being killed by their stepfather than their biological father. Psychologists call this the Cinderella effect. The research went on to look at British data, concluding that it indicated "considerable excess risk at the hands of stepfathers"."

"I would rather see the fathers suffer at the hands of their X's than children have to be torn in two and possibly placed in dangerous or inappropriate situations"

So would I maggie. But that's a false dichotomy. It isn't an either/or situation. Not all fathers are dangerous and inappropriate. Look, no one (I don't think) takes issue with mothers who prevent a father having access to his child if she believes that child is at risk.

I'm very confused by your posts if I'm honest. Do you mean that you're happy for dads to see their children but not have shared parental responsibility? Is that it? Sorry if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here.

There is no perfect solution Mrsjammi. Believe me, I bend over backwards to accomodate a man who shouldn't own a dog, and I know that there are worse fathers out there than him. But this has opened my eyes to the damage a bad father can do.

And yes, I stand by what I said, if somebody has to suffer, then I'd rather it were fathers than children. That doesn't mean that I'm blowing streamers over it.

And YOUR argument is fundamentally flawed, because it assumes that any father's imput is valuable. A good father's imput is always valuable. A bad tempered selfish unreliable father does more damage than good, if he is given the opportunity, given too much access and too many rights.

Children need a face to the name Daddy, and very often (when talking about the most hopeless fathers) minimal and/or supervised contact is for the best.

You talk about better recognising the rights of both parents! sigh. Talk to the police who arrest men (who are fathers) for downloading porn, and the women who volunteer at women's refuge centres (I do) and police who work in the DV units! Talk to anybody who works for the CSA. If blanket and unchallangeable 50:50 rights were awarded to mums:dads it would be a catastrophe for vulnerable children. Not your children though.

If there were two 'teams' in society up 'til now, Mothers and fathers, then mothers have earnt the right to have more blanket rights. (Not to block all access).

A child is not a piece of land that you can draw a line down the middle of).

And now I give up on this thread./