AIBU to worry because I can't afford to privately educate my children?

[LaydeeStardust]

I hope this makes sense-I've had wine!

We've got 4 bright and happy children,aged 4 and up.

DS2 is 14, and is apparently extremely bright and attends our local inner city state school which gets average results

Both his own school teachers and two friends who teach at different private schools have told us that he should attend a private school to give him the best possible chances in life.

One of his teachers actually said we are letting him down by not sending him to a private school

We earn too little to pay for private education ourselves so he'd have to apply for an assisted place (we both work in social services and health)

we honestly believe in the state system,but maybe we can't really say that because we don't earn enough choose?

DS2's done his own research and is now worrying that he won't be able to get into a good uni, or get a good job etc if he doesnt go to a private school....and I don't know how to reassure him!!

I'd be so interested to hear other peoples' views on this-both me and DH went to state schools then uni, but if anyone feels I'm living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that our children will achieve whatever they want without a private education please tell me!!!

Thanks in advance!!

It's a mistake because if you've got the same results as someone else who went to a state and you went to a private, the other'll be favoured because it's assumed they didn't have it as easy (even though this might not be true)

I think you shouldn´t be worrying about not being wealthy enough to pay for private education. If you don´t have the money are the teachers and your friends suggesting you get into debt on behalf of your DS? And what about the other 3 children? Do the same for them?! This seems ridiculous!

Having said this I would look into the assisted places scheme to see if this might be an option and I would also consider educating your children privately for A levels. Would this be a possibility?

Just wanted to say again that I'm really appreciating all these interesting and informative responses!

Hello LaydeeStardust,

That was a slightly flippant comment on my part - but not entirely flippant. I used to be a university admissions tutor (for a Russell Group university), and there was a very strong bias towards applicants who had been state educated; they got all kinds of allowances made for them (even if their state school was a good one). There was, likewise, a bias against private school applicants. This may have reflected only the political persuasion of my former colleagues (it was not a view I shared or represented) - but I have heard it said that universities should actively discriminate against private school pupils on the grounds that they have been spoon-fed and are really less clever than their disadvantaged state-educated contemporaries (quite what this says for state education doesn't really bear thinking about). All that said, I fully intend for mine (currently just five and just seven) to stay in the independent sector until they're 18.

If forced to choose (which I hope I'm not!), I'd do private up to 16 and then find a good sixth-form college.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

Laydee,

Your "friend" is being unreasonable for suggesting that you are letting your ds down for not sending him to a private school and not having well paid jobs. It seems as if her own experience has turned her into a snob and is expressing a narrow minded view.

To answer your original question;

Are you happy with the standards of the state school? Do you know about the GT policies? Most schools by now will be quite up to date in providing some form of enrichment for students who are exceptionally able in my experience and yes, they have gone on to do A levels and good unis.

Also, are you certain that your ds will not do as well in a state school or even better?

As you have said yourself, both you and your dh went to uni from a state school. Many others have. Both my dh and I went to prestigious universities. Dh was top in his year and his former secondary school is shutting down. My point being, if your ds is bright, he will do well wherever he is. My 2p's worth.

How interesting then, LadyHooha, that the bulk of Oxbridge places go to privately educated students...?

Methinks 't'will not always be so, Lupus!

(And if it is, there has to be a good reason for it!)

Lupus - the was at you muddying your Birkies on their turf.

In Harpenden, you have to pay for multicutural and social diversity. It isn't entirely why I pay, but it is true.

I think bright kids will do well anywhere but I do think that private schools can teach kids to play the game better.

I applied for Oxford, when I got there I was shocked to find other applicants that had been coached on how to approach the interview, had mock interviews, after school prep etc. I was so naive. The extent of my school's advice had been 'don't bother applying to xyz colleges, they won't let kids from this school in'.

I think this applies to jobs as well, in that people from private schools will set their expectations higher and will know more about well paid jobs because they will know people doing them. My parents couldn't help me because of their background but you can help your son with these things.

Laydee,

Your "friend" is being unreasonable for suggesting that you are letting your ds down for not sending him to a private school and not having well paid jobs. It seems as if her own experience has turned her into a snob and is expressing a narrow minded view.

To answer your original question;

Are you happy with the standards of the state school? Do you know about the GT policies? Most schools by now will be quite up to date in providing some form of enrichment for students who are exceptionally able in my experience and yes, they have gone on to do A levels and good unis.

Also, are you certain that your ds will not do as well in a state school or even better?

As you have said yourself, both you and your dh went to uni from a state school. Many others have. Both my dh and I went to prestigious universities and were also at state schools. Dh was top in the country for his GCSEs and A Levels and was top at uni but his former secondary school is shutting down. My point being, if your ds is bright, he will do well wherever he is. My 2p's worth.

'universities should actively discriminate against private school pupils on the grounds thatthey have been spoon-fed and are really less clever than their disadvantaged state-educated contemporaries'

Um I thought it was because the style of teaching is a bit different at state school. Certainly you have to do alot of independent reading at state school for your A'levels rather than being 'coached' through the exam as, I understand, happens at private schools.

I loved studying A'levels at my bog-standard comprehensive and certainly didn't feel disadvantaged. Many of the teachers were excellent.

I´ve known a privately educated friend who was given a place at a good university in spite of the fact that she DID NOT meet the basic entry requirements. I´m sure this would never happen for a state school educated kid. The university and school had certain links that meant rules were not followed.

I firmly believe that if a child is naturally bright and a self starter they will do well no matter where they go to school.

I might argue that private school would be better for average pupils that need a lot of help and attention.

You get thick kids at private schools too!

whoops! Connection timed out, so had to reconnect to post!

Thanks for that LadyHooHa, very helpful!

No tart- i've been looking into the 6th only route-our local private-well!!-what they study in the 6th form and how well they get prepared for uni is amazing,it looks fab and so interesting,

but ...he'd have to get a bursary-we just couldn't afford it without selling the house or something!

Actually, I stand corrected (by myself ). Oxbridge has, in the last 10 years in particular, seen a shift towards a majority of places going to state educated pupils.

But I think this is good: it corrects the bias against state pupils who were just as bright as independently educated ones a little bit. As a proportion of those educated to a high standard at A level though, I'll bet a million dollars that the odds are still stacked against state pupils' entrance to Russell Group universities...

Hi, this is a really interesting thread. I don't think the issue is that the teachers are necessarily 'better' in the private system - they're not at all. I think its more to do with the fact that they have smaller classes and less distractions from unruly (for want of a better word) students.

Were we live we have a really terrible state infant school with a high level of suspensions/staff turnover/poor facilties and bullying and as we didn't want our kids going there we've chosen the private route. If there was a state school which didn't have the problems I just listed I wouldn't have gone down the private route.

Sorry didn't really answer your question but I don't think its just a financial decision that makes you decide whether to send your kids to private school (although its obviously an important one)

Yes. I think that post is right: the atmosphere today was filled with studious industry and enthusiasm. I was almost persuaded that paying for small classes and good behaviour would be a good thing, even though it would bankrupt us.

I am not looking forward to the visit to the local comp (albeit the best in the region) which will undoubtedly have a big 'tail' of Kids Who Want To Cause Trouble.

But I still think private schools in themselves are not necessarily better. An awful lot of em in Cheshire near where I grew up were places for self-made thousandaires to add another string to their I am Considerably Richer than Yow portfolio.

With thick arrogant kids who cared only about their clothes.

Now proper academic schools, like Manchester Grammar etc, another matter altogether. But streaming and setting are back in fashion in comprehensives so bright high achievers are not left to fight it out (as I was)

Lupus - you need to look at some of the Sutton Trust's research into this - it's fascinating.

I'm pro private school and I agree with Nancy.

Link?
[because I'm too idle to do it myself]

Only read some of this thread but i think the whole "expectation gap" thing has a lot to do with it.

Private school children believe that oxbridge/other top unis/medicine/law/high powered high earning careers etc etc etc are normal options. They are not even presented as options at some (many?) state schools.

However a pushy interested parent should hopefully be able to fill that gap... i hope anyway . Only if it's right for the child obviously.

Also worth differentating between different private schools.

There are many different sorts - some extremely high achieving and with stringent entrance exams, some which are smaller class sizes and nice and local, some which are for the super-rich and not necessarily terribly bright, some for super-rich, not terribly bright and you've got to be establishment.

Each type has their own dynamic, style and likely outcome for students. For eg if Lord possington-smythe goes to eton or local comp is by the by - he's still going to get a top paid job at one of daddy's friends companies...

Independent school pupils have better hit rates to Sutton Trust unis