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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

551 replies

londonone · 23/06/2009 10:19

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

OP posts:
JoPie · 23/06/2009 21:05

I am surprised at posters who equate a ban on political membership with Thoughtcrime and legislating for peoples opinions.

Its not the same thing at all. Being a racist in thought is different to being a card carrying, due paying member of the BNP. When you join a political party, you are committing funds at least, and often time, to perpetuating and promoting the ideals of your party. You don't just think like a racist, you are funding their activities, you are part of the real activity.

Its many steps past having a few dodgy ideas. Its a statement about yourself. We are not what we think , we are what we do. We are judged by our actions. And the kind of person who joins the BNP is far worse in my mind that one who votes the BNP, who in turn is worse than one who vaguely thinks like the BNP.

HerHonesty · 23/06/2009 21:07

qally do you not realise that moondog is the only person who has ever lived/worked/breathed abroad and therefore is an expert on any such matters. show her some respect fgs...

daftpunk · 23/06/2009 21:08

can doctors/nurses/any other caring profession be members of the BNP?

chegirl · 23/06/2009 21:09

Yay JoPie!

daftpunk · 23/06/2009 21:12

because if teachers can't be members, it will extend to other professions.....i thought we were living in a democracy?....

skidoodle · 23/06/2009 21:12

The swp is against rightwing bigots if they are white and British but are happy to work hand in glove with Muslim men who openly call for homosexuals to be put to death and who support the oppression of women.

They're all for freedom as long as you do and think what they say. SGB is bang on about them.

I do not consider it a good thing that the subjugation of Muslim women by their husbands and fathers is enabled by the British state. The rule against women being able to swimin public is deeply offensive to anyone who believes in equality for women. Something nasty being a custom doesn't make it right.

Qally · 23/06/2009 21:12

I'll respond when you ask in a way less like a 13 year old having a shit fit, thanks.

moondog · 23/06/2009 21:16

I can't wait Qally!
Looking forward to your insight and perceptive take on things.

JoPie · 23/06/2009 21:19

How offensive to Muslim women to assume that the only reason they do anything is because they are subjugated by men! What about all the muslim women who believe for themselves that modesty is important and follow their religious guidelines because they want to?

This is one of the many reasons some muslims think that western society makes no effort to understand them. Not everybodys view of equality for women is the same, and the white western ideal is seen by many as just another form of inequality to women.

HerHonesty · 23/06/2009 21:24

very well put jopie.

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 21:24

Jopie - which guidelines would they be then? If you could direct me to the part of the Koran that mentions swimming pools that would be great. Or is it the case that as with many things it is in fact cultural rather than religious. When I used to live in an Islamic country it was rare for women to cover their heads, go back now and they are all covered. All those millions of women suddenly came to that decision together did they or was there perhaps the teeniest tiniest cultural pressure.

OP posts:
ScaredOfEverything · 23/06/2009 21:27

skid - how do you suggest the swimming issue is overcome? perhaps you could insist that the women swim publicly?

i might not agree with some customs of the muslim community, but I can see that offering services such as women-only swimming makes life better for these women.

great post jopie

moondog · 23/06/2009 21:29

Scared, would it be ok to have sessions for female Christians only then?

daftpunk · 23/06/2009 21:29

i'm sure my local pool has female only swimming.....great imo.

skidoodle · 23/06/2009 21:30

How insulting to my intelligence to come out with that sophomoric bullshit.

Female modesty is, and always has been, about controlling women. Just because some women collude in the oppression doesn't make it a choice freely entered into.

If it were, why was it presented as though some Muslim women couldn't swim if men were present?

Will everyone be allowed to specify what gender (age? attractiveness? religion?) a pool attendant should be? Will we allow this discrimination to affect recruitment?

What about other jobs? Should people whose customs tell them that menstruating women are unclean have that respected? Perhaps female public servants who have their period should be required to wear a sticker so those men can avoid touching them.

moondog · 23/06/2009 21:30

My pool has female only swimming too.....manned by.....male lifeguards.
They looked confused when I pointed out that this defeated the object.

daftpunk · 23/06/2009 21:31

lol moondog...

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 21:32

As I understand it the koran says both men and women should dress modestly.

OP posts:
ScaredOfEverything · 23/06/2009 21:37

AH yes, it starts with women only swimming and ends with stickers when you have your period. GReat argument Skid, and not at all scaremongering bollocks.

smallwhitecat · 23/06/2009 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

skidoodle · 23/06/2009 21:44

I don't want to live in a country where women's bodies are seen as something that should be hidden from view. It is not long ago that women fought to rid this country of such attitudes. It sickens me to see them coming back in the guise of tolerance.

I do not believe we should be tolerant of sexism and misogyny.

It was custom here too for long enough. It wasn't right then and it isn't right now.

daftpunk · 23/06/2009 21:46

as londonone says......teachers are allowed to be members of the SWP, who are basically bonkers...

HerHonesty · 23/06/2009 21:53

sexism, misogyny alive and well in the UK and not just in muslim communities!

SolidGoldBrass · 23/06/2009 21:55

JoPie: while I accept that you and many of your mates may well have been well-meaning hippies, I have encountered some thoroughgoing arseholes who were SWP members mainly for the opportunity to kick heads. Plus a few who were wanky public-school whiteboys who hero-worshipped the Nation Of Islam and looked a bit blank whenever anyone pointed out that organisation's anti-Semitism, homophobia and misogyny as perhaps being a good reason not to want to cosy up to them.
(I am trying hard to remember the name of one particular little shit who had in fact been a BNP member but found he stood a slightly better chance of getting laid if he switched to the ANti-Nazi League but he could still beat people up... - the name is relevant because he was a z-list sleb in a crappy band.)

chegirl · 23/06/2009 21:57

I LIKE women only swimming sessions. The ones round here are for all women. Yes there are a lot of Muslim women there but they are not exclusive.

I dont go because I think my body is shameful. I go because I hate getting leered at by manky men in speedos. I do not feel comfortable being semi naked in a pool with lots of men. Of course not all men who go swimming are letches but IF you are a letch it seems the local baths is the venue of choice.

I also prefer to go to women only sessions at the gym. I dont hate men (I married one after all) but its what I prefer.