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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

551 replies

londonone · 23/06/2009 10:19

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

OP posts:
Swedes · 23/06/2009 10:38

I think we all know the BNP has at its heart racist policies which certainly are NOT legal.

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:39

fiofio - Offensive to you, not offensive to others. No doubt you hold some views that others find offensive.

meemar - gut feeling is generally a pretty dodgy way to make legislation and rules!

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 23/06/2009 10:39

I think it's difficult. I can't see how it would not affect their ability to do their job fairly. Not just teachers, other serving-the-public professions too (doctors, law...)

OTOH, we are a democracy...

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:40

meemar - I am not ouytraged on behalf of the BNP I am outraged on behalf of teachers!

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 23/06/2009 10:40

"not offensive to others"

The BNP's views are offensive to anyone with a shred of humanity, decency or common sense.

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:42

soupdragon - Well many of your fellow brits obviously disagree with you.

OP posts:
skidoodle · 23/06/2009 10:43

It's not being in the bnp that would affect their ability to do the job ffs, it's the fact that they are racist.

Should we ban teachers from being racist?

How will we enforce it?

What other unpleasant views would we like to disbar people from certain jobs?

oodlesofpoodles · 23/06/2009 10:43

If she was allowed to be a member I suppose i wouldn't know, but as she is not allowed then I know she isn't. She could be an ordinary racist without being a BNP member but at least her racism wouldn't be sanctioned by the school.

meemarsgotabrandnewbump · 23/06/2009 10:44

totally! I'm glad I'm not the rulemaker.

I just can't bring myself to disagree with this though.

Maybe if someone had stepped outside the normal rules of democracy back in the 30's then millions of people would not have been murdered by nazis.

It may seem farfetched to compare, but they started out as a legal party for 'ordinary German people'...

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:45

oodles - At the moment teachers are allowed to be members and I believe that there are teachers who are members at the moment.

OP posts:
wannaBe · 23/06/2009 10:46

I agree with fio that I wouldn't want my child being taught by a member of the bnp. But I do think that banning certain professions from belonging to certain political parties (and there's a difference between banning all political activity and singling out one party in particular), raises some questions.

If the bnp is a legal political party, then surely it should not be determined that only certain people may belong to it. You cannot prevent people from voting bnp purely because voting is confidential and dictating who someone can or cannot vote for would most likely be in breach of their rights.

So rather than questioning whether teachers should be allowed to belong to the bnp, should we not be questioning why the bnp has been allowed to remain a legal political party?

CarpePerDiems · 23/06/2009 10:46

Londonone, do you support the BNP? I've yet to read a thread about them on here that you haven't contributed to, and you do seem to offer a kind of 'reasoned' support each time. It's almost as though it's a form of subtle marketing.

As to your question, how can a teacher be a member of a party that supports discriminating against people based on race and then be trusted not to discriminate within the classroom? I think by signing up to the party they're demonstrating that their opinion of a child in their class is likely to be affected by the child's race and that compromises their position.

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:47

good point wannabe

OP posts:
skidoodle · 23/06/2009 10:49

They did step outside the "normal rules of democracy" in Germany inthe 1930s. Haven't you heard of the Enabling Act?

Granting enhanced powers to the executive to protect against a perceived threatening group was a big part of the problem.

In a democracy the executive should not be banning public servants from joining certain parties or holding certain views.

FioFio · 23/06/2009 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Kathyis6incheshigh · 23/06/2009 10:51

I think it would play right into their hands. Part of their strategy is to take on a victim identity ('white people in this country are second class citizens' etc) and this would just give them a great bit of ammo to do that with - just think how much capital they make out of the Black Police Association (or whatever it's called).

I think it would be a strategic mistake, apart from anything else.

Nancy66 · 23/06/2009 10:51

I struggle to understand how a party that does not permit membership from non whites is allowed to operate legally.

BUT given that it does then I would not want people to be banned from joining.

As somebody else said - we're a democracy or we're not.

There was a petition to stop the BNP members taking their place in Europe which I didn't sign. I hate the fact they were elected - but they WERE elected.

As much as I hate the BNP, I value free speech more.

SolidGoldBrass · 23/06/2009 10:52

I find this an uncomfortable one, as well, because (as with a lot of BNP-related stuff) it seems as though condeming the BNP and turning them into hate figures to be blamed for everything from social inequality to swine flu somehow fixes the problem. Ban the BNP and there will be no more racism! Say how horrible the BNP are and show how wonderfully non-racist you are.
I can see how civil servants need to be forbidden to join political parties, and could accept the idea of teachers (for instance) being forbidden from becoming menbers of any political party, but it's not a good idea, really, to say that some political parties are more legal than others.

KingRolo · 23/06/2009 10:52

Teachers are expected to treat every child with decency and respect (Every Child Matters?), no matter what their sex, religion, ethnicity, sexuality or ability.

If a teacher is a member of a political party that advocates repatriation of anyone not 'British' then how can they possibly do this? In some classrooms in Britain that would be all the kids!

And what about their vile comments on rape being a bit like eating too much chocolate cake? Would you want someone who adhered to that view teaching your daughter?

I'd say anyone charged with shaping the hearts and minds of the next generation should not be allowed to be a BNP member.

Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:52

carpe - read my OP I make my view very clear. I do however feel very strongly that a reasoned debate is important rather than the swearing, name calling and hand wringing that many posters go in for when it comes to this topic. I have at no [point shown any support, what I have done is point out that they are a legal party and as such need to be treated as a political party. Whether they should be legal is a different question but I am dealing with the current situation.

I would appreciate it if you could retract your suggestion that I am in some way marketing for them as it is rather offensive. Don't ythink I have come across you before incidentally.

OP posts:
Original poster
londonone · 23/06/2009 10:55

kingrolo -
"I'd say anyone charged with shaping the hearts and minds of the next generation should not be allowed to be a BNP member."

On that basis you are pretty much advocating sterilising BNP members!!!!!

OP posts:
BitOfFun · 23/06/2009 10:57

The BNP don't value free speech though. I'm a bit sick of them coming on Mumsnet too. OP, if you are remotely genuine, why don't you get your knickers in a twist about some other stuff for a change? I find your bleating about the BNP's "rights" really tedious and offensive. I'm going to hide this now- but I hope other people are wondering what you're up to too.

lljkk · 23/06/2009 10:57

Lots of professions require a standard of conduct which is above and beyond that required by law.

Look at the MPs expenses scandal; overwhelmingly they did not break laws or even their own rules. But they are deep Caca for violating moral expectations.

Mind, if teachers are banned from joining BNP, then so should any other similar professional person, like vicars, doctors, firemen, soliciters, university lecturers etc. (all those people who can sign your passport application photo).

wannaBe · 23/06/2009 10:58

But not being a member of a party doesn't mean that you're not a racist.

Banning people from being a member of the bnp creates a false sense of security IMO.

skidoodle · 23/06/2009 10:58

Right well there are a lot of things we'd better make sure these shapers of "hearts and minds" aren't disposed to then...

Better make sure they think the right way about all the things we want our children to learn about.

But hang on a minute... You know who does more shaping of children than teachers? Parents! Should we think about banning them from holding certain views and joining certain groups? We could remove children from parents who might bring them up in an offensive way that the majority didn't approve of.