ok...will try this again, aibu to be put off a school by the amount of children with SN?

[daftpunk]

posted this in education, (Pre-school, like the twit that i am).....my ds is due to start secondary school in 2 years so we're looking around already, i am a bit put off by a school with lots of SN children, as SN also means behaviour problems....i'm not sure if i am being unreasonable.

DH loves stats and carefully analysed the GCSE results for our two nearest state schools. Both have very good scores. One is a faith school which somehow manages to have no SN or SEN pupils. The other is a normal distribution of the kids in the area and therefore has a fair percentage. The inevitable conclusion is that the faith school is less good overall, as it manages only a similar result with a biased intake.

Again, the issue is not the provision for SN/SEN kids as I don't always think it's adequate- it's about whether or not those kids are the ones to cause the behaviour problems and in my experience the answer is not usually.

If you are concerned about behavioural problems then yes, these exist at secondary schools as they are full of, stop press, teenagers. It's really not an SN or SEN issue! You can help your children by making sure that they know how to behave properly and not get wound up, etc. I also think that encouraging sports can facilitate social inclusion at secondary school level, people can always catch up academically on their own at home if necessary.

"i am a bit put off by a school with lots of SN children, as SN also means behaviour problems...."

"i don't want him going to a school full of children who can't sit still for longer than 2 minutes."

Don't be fooled by her "I only wanted information" line, she deliberately winds people up and then protests her innocence. This is not the first time and it won't be the last. I've been called every name under the sun by her. She enjoys it.

I wouldn't particularly want to defend daftpunk, but it sounds like she thinks that the real troublemakers who disrupt the class are given the label of SN. Is that ever true? Do they say "X smashes windows and bullies everyone therefore he must have emotional/psychological problems and that counts as SN or is there a proper definition that is adhered to"

well ds2 has SEN, he also has emotional issues, and some behavioural problems. but because we know about it, we get help he needs and we know how to manage this behaviour. I have been told on many occasion that he is in fact better behaved in class than those without such issues.
and that's without a TA sitting next to him.

Only someone with a child like ds2 or who worked with someone like ds2 would recognise he had such issues. most people just think he's a bit quirky.

would I want someone backing away at a fast rate from the school he goes to, just because he shows up on some pecentage thing? ..

blimey
how charming

I must say one of the things that I thought was really lovely about dd's school was the fact that it is very inclusive and has a brilliant SN provision. I would prefer that she grows up in an environment where there are all sort of children. I am certainly not aware of the SN children being any more disruptive than the rest of them.

Your view smacks of fear borne out of ignorance tbh

whats the percentage of people on this thread with kids with sn? i can see why you take offence and get all defensive about this subject
but for someone who doesnt have any personal experience of kids with sn, i dont think its an unreasonable thing to ask a question about
im sure theres a helluva lot of people, including me that know/understand very little about sn/sen
but sure, just keep hurling insults and raving about the op and none of us will learn anything

onager, no they are not. A child who is disruptive isn't allowed to use SN as an excuse. They mainly look to family problems and say that xxx is having a bad day emotionally. But these are NOT kids with SN.

Kids with SN very rarely disrupt at all.

Thanks Rhubarb.

harleyd, I think I've actually given her a lot more time answering her questions than she's ever given me. But due to her past record for winding people up, she can't complain when we see this in the same vein.

Besides, she had a bloody right go at a poster recently who admitted they were ignorant about politics.

For someone so educated and well up on politics, I find this level of ignorance hard to believe.

harley- the irony of the rest of MN insulting dp.... she gives it out enough. She needs to grow some and learn how to take it as well. Especially when showing such wilfull ignorance.

Rhubarb there is a big difference between ignorance and deliberate provocation. I believe this to be the latter tbh.

AIBU to not want to dd to go to a school where children are parented to understand that those with special needs will, by definition, be a problem to those without.

This bloody country. I sometimes feel a kind of yearning for some real problems. So we can all be nicer to each other. Say like in some war torn African countries, where we'd be wondering of our sons had been snatched to fight in armys.

So yes op. YABU.

harleyd - I agree, like you I don't know much about this area but I do know that my DCs school has a high %age of SN/SEN partly beacuse its a small school and is able to identify needs that other larger schools maybe would miss. I don't think its a problem and the other side of the coin could be underreporting and so underresourcing which would be a more worrying issue for all involved.

IMHO behavioural problems sometimes come belong to unhappy children who feel ignored or overlooked at school or at home....I fail to see the link with children with special needs, other than that kids who act up at school often also have their own specific needs (that are not being met)?

Or am I missing something here? name of OP rings a bell?

Oh for goodness sake she is just trolling as per usual - you don't have to name change to troll and DP is one of mumsnet's most prolific shit-stirrers. I've never seen her [i]not[/i] trying to cause trouble. Hide the thread and get on with your lives cos really you are all just giving her the jollies she's after.

yanbu
as a parent of a child with sn, i really don't want parents like you near my child.

Rhubarb, you have been fab!

With regard to educating is it really only mothers with children with SN that see how important inclusion and teaching our children that we are not all born the same is. I don't think so.

This thread was designed to inflame and be confrontational.

Tree you are so right!

fucking hell. I actually did have a physical reaction to this thread like a feeling of being hit in the stomach.

DP why do you enjoy being so nasty??? I really dont understand. I have seen you be very rude to people on numerous threads and say outrageous things like this and I just dont understand what you get out of it. TBH it makes it seem like you must be very unhappy or have some strange issues that need dealing with. These are children you are talking about.

How many NT children are disruptive? Flipping heck go to any school and most obnoxious bullies are NT. Are you trying to raise an obnoxious bully or is that just your goal for yourself?

My DS may or may not have SN the jury is still out on that one but he is the kindest child and I dont know many other children his age with his level of compassion, manners and empathy. I am just shocked that people think NT children are high performing angels and SN children are little shits.

Also in response to thedolly who said

"YANBU to be put off a school with lots of SN children - the behaviour problems is a red herring, not a red flag.

Schools with a high number of SN children are unlikely to be academic in the traditional sense. If that is what you want then this is not the school for you." I wonder how you can back that statement up? Some schools have high numbers of SN because they are so good that they understand the complexities of individuals learning requirements thoroughly. I think that some people might need to take a step back and re-evaluate the prejudices they have against SN amongst many other issues, and remember these are human beings, who have families who love them devotedly. NT families do not own respectibility, intellectual ability or kindness nor do SN families.

Hereidrawtheline, that is a brilliant post!

This thread was designed like that yes. Phht.

I'm because this prejudice is reality to families of sn kids, noisy kids or whatever. No one should get to use them as practical joke.

Nor do they get to attempt to generate futher prejudice against sn.

Pick another one op.

Well I take offence and I have no dc with special needs, but I am pleased my children go to a school which has SN children there.

dd1's best friend has a severe SN, she has enhanced all our lives, by being such a good friend to dd1, as well as being utterly impressive in what she's coped with in life. I'm so pleased she wasn't shuttled off to a SN school.

Oh daftpunk I often wonder what colour the sky is in your world. You have some very unique views.

I shall be polite and say it's nice that you take the time to think about your child's schooling. It's best I leave it there tbh.