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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be really really angry that only women are once again being blamed for leaving having babies too late??

246 replies

littlestmummystop · 19/06/2009 16:32

Where the feck is the man's responsibility in all this??

A straw poll of my friends. . . 4 out of 6 felt broody and wanted babies in their 20s despite all also having great jobs. None of their boyfriends also in their twenties were 'ready' so none of them did.

I had a baby at 24, then my exP decided he was too young to be a dad ( at 28) so he left. I've been a single parent since.

So what are women supposed to do? Make ultimatums, have a baby earlier and risk being a single parent? Or leave it till their menfolk are 'ready' to settle down, which among the middle class lot appears to be around 35, and then risk leaving it too late? Why are women being solely blamed for this??

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 21/06/2009 11:22

What upsets me is the idea that women are 'out of their child bearing years' by 35. I just had my first baby at 40.

Did it take a bit longer to conceive? Maybe. It did take nearly 2 years, but I know a lot of women in their 20s and early 30s who have taken 2 years to conceive.

As for health issues? Well, I already had diabetes before I conceived. And Adam is fine now. He was in SCBU for 9 days due to breathing issues, but those were most likely caused by his being born by CS (elective due to my diabetes and his size and my size) not due to my being 40.

Also, forcing your partner to have a baby? Just stupid. And I never use the word stupid if I can help it.

makipuppy · 21/06/2009 11:26

Tee don't know if you meant me - but I didn't force him to have a baby! I just got on with having one - he had every option of not joining me as a parent (and staying in the relationship) - I just literally couldn't wait a moment longer.

Many congratulations on your little boy! I remember you from the forties thread and am very glad all is well.

mrsruffallo · 21/06/2009 11:28

I'm sorry, but I think it's ridiculous to blame it all on men.
If after a few years of being with someone they still don't want kids with you then it's time to move on.
If someone sees themselves with you for life then they will want to have kids with you. As Expat says, if they refuse you need to move on.

Plenty of women make the choice to wait until they are late 30's/40, which is more risky.

ABetaDad · 21/06/2009 11:33

There are a lot of professional women who want to wait to have children until their career is established. That is OK and would not criticise that.

I suspect a lot of men feel their job is to provide for their family and want to wait until they get a better paid job before a baby comes along. I think that is OK and would not criticise that either.

Men do not have the same emotional drive to have children as women and if a woman wants to form a relationship with a man and wants to have children quickly then she has to be upfront about that. If he does not want that then it is the wrong relationship.

People sometimes have good reasons for wanting to wait and I think financial pressures now are miuch greater. House price multiples of wages are about 6 x at the moment. When my parents got married the average wage cost about 3x th eaverag emale wage. People are delaying having children for financial reasons in the main but the problem is biology will not wait for finances.

picmaestress · 21/06/2009 11:44

Totally agree expat, it would be ridiculous to expect people to do that, I think my point was, it's quite a specific thread, and to me it came across as being a bit smug, that's all. But I can see now that I was being a bit silly. Probably the wrong place for me to express myself. By the way, I didn't write about this because I wanted any sympathy, I just wanted to explain what it feels like to some of the people on this thread who don't understand why some women don't just get on with it.
I'll go and find a forum for single childless women, that'll probably be a barrel of laughs

tattycoram · 21/06/2009 12:39

Picma, I don't believe anyone on this thread would have anything but compassion for the situation you are in.

Judy1234 · 21/06/2009 14:27

Poor picma. I think it's really interesting on here to hear views from the childless/free and from men and indeed teenagers and the over 60s.

But if you really want a child nothing is stopping you. If my sister can have hers single and via IVF I am sure you can but you mustn't want a child enough to do that or want it only be if you have a man or won't a tolerate a man who just about will do but you don't love. I would put having the children above waiting for a relationship if the result were I could never have had children. There is plenty of time to find men later and plenty of people have several marraiges but your years of being fertile are not that many.

Also if you were conned couldn't you just pretend you were taking precautinos and get pregnant? I bet 30% of pregnancies are accidents, deliberaet or otherwise and most of the men then accept the child

ABetaDad · 21/06/2009 15:58

Xenai - surely conning someone into having a child is grossly unfair and will only lead to unhappiness?

I do though agree most men will go along with the idea of having children because their partner wants one without really having a strong feeling about it. That is a different thing.

BitOfFun · 21/06/2009 16:26

I think it's crass to assume IVF will work for everyone- the success rates aren't great, and it's bloody expensive. Not everybody is in a position to put themselves in debt on the offchance it might work- and I'm sure it's not about them not wanting enough.

kittywise · 21/06/2009 16:33

I don't understand all the fuss really. When I was ready for kids I went to DP and said so. I said I would like them with him but if he didn't want kids now I would leave.

A woman has the choice to stay in a relationship childless. She could leave it , young enough, and find a bloke who wanted kids

ChippingIn · 21/06/2009 19:23

kittywise - congratulations on your perfect life...

I take it's that's why you posted - to get a round of applause?

kittywise · 21/06/2009 19:48

No not at all. I just can't stand it when people play victims

You don't have to stay with a partner who keeps delaying having kids.

The op spoke as if there was no choice in the matter. For most women there is a choice. Women who choose to leave it until their 40's , for whatever reason, are taking a huge risk. But they know that.

SarfEast · 21/06/2009 19:50

That's the thing isn't it, do you insist and hope that when it happens that they are happy and supportive? It's quite a risk to take. I was married for 7 years before DH came round to the idea and luckily embraced fatherhood wholeheartedly. If I had coerced him earlier, who's to say if he would have been happy. Parenthood plays havoc with your lifestyle, your choices, you both need to really want it because it can be very hard on both of you.

ChippingIn · 21/06/2009 20:02

kittywise - I hope you are never in a situation which from the outside seems so bloody easy to solve, but from the inside is anything but difficult.

I don't think it helps to be so smug and tell others they are 'playing the victim'.

Another thing you think about when you are actually in this position is that when they say 'next year when xyz (seemingly valid reason)', that is still 'sooner' than it would be if you were to leave them, get over that, meet someone else, develop a relationship with them, get into a good enough relationship with them to want to have children (and risk them saying 'not yet' as well....) - it's not like you just walk out of this long term relationship, into the next one and get pregnant within a month is it (well, not for most women anyway).

kittywise · 21/06/2009 20:17

chippinging it IS still a choice to make though isn't it?

I never said it was an easy one but it is quite possible to find a man who wants kids.

if it is very important to someone then it is something that needs to be discussed if the relationship is getting serious, not left to chance and hope

ChippingIn · 21/06/2009 20:26

Oh FGS Kittywise - do you think those of us who were in/are in LONG TERM relationships (WELL PAST GETTING SERIOUS) are leaving this to chance and hope - READ what people are saying! Both long term partners said they wanted children and both times I discussed this very early on in the relationship(s) much to the of my friends who thought I was nuts to even care, let alone bring it up at that stage, but to me it was important, if they didn't want children, it wasn't a relationship I was going to stay in - both assured me that they did.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Of course it is a choice
but FGS stop making it sound like it's that clear cut. If they say 'No, I don't want children' it's easy to see what you options are, when (other than this) you have a great relationship and you really love them and they say they do want them, but not just yet... then it's not so bloody simple to just walk out........

kittywise · 21/06/2009 20:29

chippingin if I was with someone that said "next year for more than 2 years running I'd know they were not keen. Alarm bells would be ringing.

You also need to be with someone you can trust, if some says 'next year' then they should be trusted to keep to that.

The desire for kids or not must surely be one of the most important things to establish in a relationship.

I think there are too many women who get together with someone who plainly isn't that interested in being a parent but they hope that the bloke will change his mind in a couple of years. Then he doesn't , years go by and the whole thing goes tits up.

It has to be discussed openly and honestly from the beginning.

kittywise · 21/06/2009 20:31

x posts chippingin. No of course it would be bloody awful to leave a relationship where you loved the bloke but he had reneged on his 'promise' to have kids in x years.

I guess it comes down to what you want most.

ChippingIn · 21/06/2009 20:54

kittywise - it's not that simple. In my situation we had a business, it was struggling, it would have struggled much more if either one of us had taken an outside job. We were both optimistic that our plan would mean it would recover within x amount of time, more than once we were proved wrong (not going into more detail here, but some of it was out of our control). Things were BAD at times, terrible financially, an incredible amount of stress and on top of that his Father was on and off in critical care, our godson had a near fatal car accident - so much going on, for more than 2 years, trust me - next year came around bloody fast and him wanting us to give ourselves another year to get things on a bit more of an even keel did not seem unreasonable.

He was keen, just we managed to screw up the relationship with the way we both dealt with the other stuff to a point where we split up - partly this was due to me wanting/needing to have children now and him wanting the business to be more stable. He has had children (3), but maintains to this day that he'd rather have had them with me (told friends, not me, not very loyal to his now wife I admit), but just didn't want to have them until the business was sorted out. (I walked out of it in the end once it was up and running ok, he then sold it and is doing something else)...

expatinscotland · 21/06/2009 21:00

I agree with kittywise and don't think she's being smug.

At the end of the day it's a choice. If you chose to stay with a man who kept putting it off, well, she brings up quite a salient point that, after a couple of years, they're lying to you, you can't trust them at their word.

Why would you want to stay with someone like that in the first place?

Well, because you love them, and you 'invested' in them?

Hey, well, learn to love you more and invest in yourself and what you want instead and see where that gets you.

No way is it easy, but she's right: you either cut your losses before it's too late or you don't.

My divorce as the most painful thing (thank goodness, now, much prefer it to some other things that could happen).

I lost everyting that was my life for 30 years.

But I felt like I was running out of time. It was either put more time in him or put some in me and maybe have a chance at children.

But I couldn't live without trying for the sake of a man.

expatinscotland · 21/06/2009 21:02

I lost my house, my car, went bankrupt, became dependent on alcohol and cigarettes and nearly lost my health, then wound up losing everything but what was in 5 carboard boxes and two rucksacks.

nooka · 21/06/2009 21:03

When dh and I first got serious we didn't either of us want children. But things change, and nine years later it was dh who got broody, and me who said OK we'll give it a go. Lots of people change their views on what they want in life, and there is no bigger decision than whether or not to have children IMO. I also think people should be at least a little sensitive to those who find that they can't have children - are we really saying in those circumstances that their partners should dump them for someone more fertile because the wish to have babies should override love of a partner?

expatinscotland · 21/06/2009 21:07

'I also think people should be at least a little sensitive to those who find that they can't have children - are we really saying in those circumstances that their partners should dump them for someone more fertile because the wish to have babies should override love of a partner? '

i thought this wasn't about infertility, but about people who are unable to find a partner who wants to have children.

nooka · 21/06/2009 21:20

I'm not saying it is about infertility. Just an extrapolation of the 'if they don't want kids and you do, then just dump them and find someone else'. Which just seems a bit simplistic to me. If you love someone you want to have children with them surely?

Maybe because I didn't have a particular urge to be a mother I'm just not on the same wavelength here (and also I got pregnant very easily with ds, and then accidentally fast with dd, so I had both children before I was 30 and then focused on making sure I never got pregnant again).

expatinscotland · 21/06/2009 21:24

''if they don't want kids and you do, then just dump them and find someone else'. Which just seems a bit simplistic to me. '

no one said it was as easy as that. some are saying that to continue to stay with a partner who continually puts you off when you get to an age where infertility might statistically more of an issue, then that does imply an element of choice.

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