to be really really angry that only women are once again being blamed for leaving having babies too late??

[littlestmummystop]

Where the feck is the man's responsibility in all this??

A straw poll of my friends. . . 4 out of 6 felt broody and wanted babies in their 20s despite all also having great jobs. None of their boyfriends also in their twenties were 'ready' so none of them did.

I had a baby at 24, then my exP decided he was too young to be a dad ( at 28) so he left. I've been a single parent since.

So what are women supposed to do? Make ultimatums, have a baby earlier and risk being a single parent? Or leave it till their menfolk are 'ready' to settle down, which among the middle class lot appears to be around 35, and then risk leaving it too late? Why are women being solely blamed for this??

makipuppy - those are interesting thoughts. I did wonder about the profle of donors. I'll be honest. I really regret not doing it now and would have liked to be one of those altruistic men and would not have wanted or sought any thanks for it.

Yes, I did think after my post above I should have given your DP a lot of credit. He deserves it too.

Good point about telling the children and not allowing it to be a surprise.

NO i dont think she has to be grateful
what an odd thing to sugegst.

Oops my figures shuld have been

1984 3 bed terraced zone 5 house £40,000 my salary £7500

2009 same house £250,000 salaries in the same area of work £36,000 - £38,000

Aw, never mind abetadad, sure you're doing a brilliant job with the ones you have!

I never said be grateful I said appreciate that basically it is luck not judgement that has put you in the position you are in today and I know plenty who did exactly what you did, bought at 19 and it turned out very differently.

Just to address the balance - I got married at 23 but didn't get pregnant until I was 30. I just didn't feel ready, my DH would quite happily have had a baby 5 years earlier! Not all women want to have babies in their 20s, whether they are in a relationship or not.

Fio - I certainly wasn't having a go - in fact you have my utmost respect for making such sage decisions at such a young age! I only wish I,d been in a position to do the same.

'NO i dont think she has to be grateful
what an odd thing to sugegst.'

Squid, NO ONE said she should be grateful. That other poster only pointed out that luck is involved for many who bought when they did because the market increased the way it did.

And yes, the implication that people can't or couldn't buy because they went or go on holiday, have or had flash cars, etc. was there.

There is luck but also planning too. Also no one has ever lost money on property if they hold a property from age about 25 to 70 ever in the UK, even when there are periods of negative equity so if you plan to buy a house and own one until you die then you will not lose out long term.

Maybe not but you do loose opportunity, if you time the market incorrectly and end up paying double for the same house as next door then you've lost the opportunity to invest, to pay less interest, to pay into your pension the list goes on and on.
You make money on anything when you buy the house/shares/pensions not when you sell it so timing the market is the difference between being able to hold a property from 25 to 70 years.
Basically inflation if it allowed to will offer us the opportunities as our parents if the labour government wants us to have it, from what I see though they seem quite keen on keeping us debt slaves for the rest of our and our children's lives.

Just to continue the thread hijack - like makipuppy, I didn't have any problem finding a donor who met my 'specifications' in terms of his physical characteristics - I wasn't that bothered to be honest - I wasn't trying to make a child who physically 'matched' either me or his non-bio dad.

The whole 'knock on the door' debate is really interesting. I have a couple of friends who have either grown up in care or been adopted. Like makipuppy says, those that have been adopted and told from a young age do not seem anywhere near as keen to find their birth parents as the ones who have had a frankly shitty childhood do. And of course, if you are using donor sperm, then that is only one half of the story. For a child born of donor egg or sperm, there is no issue of abandonment - quite the reverse. It is about being so very, very wanted that your parents will move heaven and earth to have you in their lives. Well that's how it seems to me anyway

I guess that's the worry though if bad parents did have a child with donated eggs or sperm and then knocked the door and told you they wished they'd never been born or were worse off emotionally or financially than your own children would you feel obliged to the egg or sperm standing in front of you ?

Yeah I guess. Although I think that huge desire to be parents means most of us try a lot harder than your average 'oh gosh, I got pregnant without even thinking about it' [chortle] person.

And if I bring my son up to think that being better off financially is a huge consideration, I will have failed hugely.

Obviously I can't guard against depression - I'm not god

I don't know it's certainly not a given, I was sat in a fertility clinic waiting room this morning when somebody wheeled in their toddler, most sensitive but anyway and too be honest i wanted to take him off her and give him to woman sat next to her who could be bothered to talk to him whilst mum had her head stuck in a magazine.

Of course it's not a given. She sounds pretty awful (although maybe she'd just had a shit morning - toddlers can be very trying). But I would think children of parents who have undergone any kind of fertility treatment are likely to be more considered parents than those who haven't.

I can't imagine that many parents who get prosecuted for abusing their children spend anywhere near as much time, money and energy conceiving as I did (and you too by the sounds of things).

I woiuld never criticise a mother for reading a magazine and ignoring a toddler. Also she might have secondary infertility and has no one to leave the toddler with. In fact parents who over parent and are a kind of entertainer for their child are arguably worse parents than those who let them learn to play alone but that's a separate debate.

Is anyone watching Eastenders tonight??

Ronnie and Jack - convo belongs on here!!

I was 30 when I had DD. DH was 35 and now wishes that "he had done it 5 years ago" been together 8 years.

For me 30 was about right.

Most of my friends sit around the 33 mark and all are "thinking about having kids in a few years".

I know that a lot of lucky people can have children in their mid (to late?) 40's but I would like another 1 or 2 and would like to call it a day and get some sleep soon!

Erm, surely the Eastenders convo belongs on the losers thread?

makipuppy - why would you say that? Jack and Ronnie were having pretty much a word for word conversation that we have been talking about on here... why on the losers thread?????