to think the pregnant woman on the train tutting at not being offered a seat was Being unreasonable?

[pinkyporker]

I will probably get jumped on here but having been a commuting pregnant lady on 3 occasions I am well aware of the discomfort standing on tube journeys can do.

However it really riled me the other day when a pregnant lady huffed and puffed and made loud comments on the train because she had not been offered a seat. Now I was standing but had I been sitting i wouldn't of offered a seat to her after her comments.

If she was 38 weeks pregnant as she so loudly claimed, then surely to is her career choice to work so late into pregnancy and she should consider the journey when making this decision.

Personally if I was that desperate and I have been I would just politely ask someone if they minded giving up their seat but I dont just expect it. There are many people who have problems standing where it is not obvious.

There was also a woman on my local paper complaining of the same.

Just wondered what other people thought. Should pregnant women expect a seat on public transport?

YABVVVU

igglepiggle I can quite categorically say that I have never tried to ignore someone who needs a seat more than me no matter how tiring a day I have had.

In fact I would go so far as to say that i would look at everyone coming on at later stops to see if there is someone who needs a seat more than me.

What is happening in this country that common courtesy is Disappearing.

I have the same problem getting a seat whilst carrying my 2 stone almost 3 year old son. Most people try to ignore me and even barge me out of the way to get onto the train first! Now i just politely ask the person in the priority seat to let me sit down if no one offers first though i have been known to mutter ' selfish bastards' quite loudly at the whole carriage!

"And I'm not at all impressed with your attitude mayorquimby - if a person less able to stand than you looks pissed off that they have to stand, you deliberatly won't give them a seat to teach them a lesson?"

if someone got on and started loudly tutting and acting as though they were entitled to a seat then no i wouldn't give it up. not to teach them a lesson but just because i think it's rude an i'm not in the habit of doing favours for people who are ruid or are trying to guilt me or bully me into doing something.
if i see a woman on public transport standing or someone who is in more need of a seat i will offer it to them of my own free will. i won't be railroaded into doing so however.

Spam - I found it very difficult at first to ask people, and in fact I didn't ask during pregnancy - and regretted it - I was fine, just knackered. So that's why I decided to be more assertive post-preg - I felt that since Londoners are so self-centred I had to take responsibility for my own needs.

On a separate, but connected note, assertiveness is an essential life skill and I would encourage everyone to do whatever they can to develop it.

And I did say in my post that it's unacceptable that pregnant women should not be offered seats...

So if a woman is to get a seat from you, mayorquimby, she must be ladylike and docile, maybe shyly looking out from under her hair like lady di, and not express her irritation that she is having to stand despite being heavily pregnant?

FWIW I am shy and nervous and never asked anyone for a seat, and was very rarely offered one.

So actually tutting doesn't get results, and nor does not tutting.

Bottom line is vast majority of commuters would rather watch a pg woman spontaneously miscarry in front of them rather than give up their seat.

Well presumably she didn't start tut tutting until all in the carriage had made it abundantly clear they weren't giving her a seat. IME, not giving up your seat to a heavily pregnant woman is far ruder than said woman tut tutting. I would be utterly mortified if my children didn't give up seats in these circumstances.

Perhaps she was drive to the tutting by the fact that it had happened so many times.

MQ - in your hypothetical situation I would offer the tutting person the seat and say to them (politely, but firmly) that next time they should just ask, rather than tutting. To do what you suggested is essentially colluding with their game (in a reverse way - if that makes sense!). I prefer (well, my fabulous alter-ego prefers!) to cut through the bullshit by telling the person straight.

Some day my alter ego and I will become one...

I just don't feel assertive when pg merry. I feel very vulnerable and really couldn't bring myself to do it.

Thing is that also feeds into the whole "don't ask don't get" attitude which is why no-one is giving up their seats in the first place. On the basis that if people need one they should ask.

I think it's wrong.

"So if a woman is to get a seat from you, mayorquimby, she must be ladylike and docile, maybe shyly looking out from under her hair like lady di, and not express her irritation that she is having to stand despite being heavily pregnant?"

yep that's exactly what i said. well done.

Well it sounds like it to me.

Of course they bloody should get a seat, FGS what kind of world is it that we let preganant woman, disabled and elderly stand on tubes and buses. Fucking get up and let them sit if their need is greater than yours, can't believe OP sat and thought about the pregnant ladies career choice or journey planning while the lady stood there grumbling. Maybe the pregnant lady wasn't brave enough to ask anyone to their face and thought if she huffed a bit and said she was pregnant some kind person would get up, bunch of bastards.

YABAB

"To do what you suggested is essentially colluding with their game "

and i can see that in a way. but it's just the indignant sense of entitlement that people give off when tutting and sighing about the state of the world today, rather than just politely ask someone if they mind.
if i haven't noticed someone because i was reading or staring out the window and they asked for my seat politely, i'd give it up no problem. ditton if i saw someone who needed the seat i'd offer without having to be asked.
but if i hadn't noticed someone and they started making loud tuttings and complaining rather than just ask, i'd just think them rude.

"Well it sounds like it to me"
which is why i comlimented you on your astute observational skills.

*complimented

i'm with mayor quimby on this one - if they aren't feminin and don't flick their hair - i don't see how anyone should give up a seat for them tbh

it makes it worse if they have ugly shoes

I hate having to ask for a seat, purely for the reason that the person sitting there could be like me, outwardly I look fine and people get peed off if they do ask for my seat and I say "sorry, no im disabled" they immediately assume im lying (not everyone of course but most)
On days that im feeling well enough I would move, straight away. I know how hard it is.

As for the "I defy anyone to tell me that they have NEVER, after a long hard day at work, ignored the pregnant or elderly person on the train because they were too tired to give up their seat.

I have."

One word... WOW.
You must be such a nice person!!!

i t really gets my goat how people aren't falling over each other to give people who need it a seat.

MQ, so you sitting on your arse staring out the window oblivious to an 8 month pregnant woman in need of a seat is fine but for her to tut tut at having to stand is rude?

Stayingsunny I know you weren't the first, it wasn't a comment just aimed at you, it just came after your post. I also correct my 8 year old (who I have a vested interest in teaching) but I just think it was all verging on taking the piss because we weren't agreeing with the OP. All I'm saying is I don't think it needs to get personal. Lots of people have perfectly good grammar but still say 'would of' or 'should of' - it's just one of those speech idiosyncracies - doesn't mean the poster doesn't know the difference. Anyway, digressing somewhat....

With my first pregnancy I became very assertive and asked for seats on the tube. With my second I felt very vulnerable and not very confident and found it very hard to speak out, and yes, I did tend to glare and tut a little. Most of the time people either gave me a seat or some nice standing person would demand one for me, which would often reduce me to tears in my over-hormonal state.

In the Czech Republic I've seen people leap off their seat the second an old person, pregnant woman, person carrying a child, person on crutches etc. gets on the tram. They just do it, like walking down the street. Why are weaker people seen something we'd rather not see in this country?

what else would you have me sit on?
i don't actively scan every person who enters the bus or train. you honestly can't forsee a situation where by someone is reading a book or spaced out staring out the window on their way home from work so that they might not notice one other passenger on public transport?
as i've said repeatedly i have no problem giving up a seat if i notice someone who needs it or if someone asks me politely for it. standing over someone huffing and puffing and moaning is rude. it's the difference between asking someone if you mind going ahead of them in a line because you are in a rush and standing behind someone tutting and saying "hurry up some of us are in a rush". i don't see why manners go out the window just because you feel you need a seat more than someone else.

I'm 25 weeks pregnant and really showing, and was on the tube last week, and overheard the woman in the seat for the less able turn to her companion and stage whisper 'I think that woman's pregnant', to which he replied 'yes, she is, don't make eye contact'. Luckily I was able to put my whole weight on his foot as I walked past him to another seat that had just become free. Oh, and this wasn't commuter time - it was mid morning on Saturday.

I have so far not been offered a seat once, and was refused on the one occasion I asked a bloke to move. And I have offered my seat to an elderly woman once when nobody else was going to move.

I think the attitude towards to pregnant women on public transport is disgusting, and am incredibly grateful to have moved out of central London now - how anyone can manage to commute up until their due date is beyond me.

Arolf I can't believe that bloke refused to move! He must have some balls while at the same time not having any! (If you get my drift). He would have to be a right selfish b*stard to actually stay sitting after being asked. Oh well, his karma.

YABU, I agree that her tutting and huff-puffing about it was rude, but perhaps she had already asked and been ignored? Or been a part of the regular occurence on tubes of seeing people notice you/your condition and then studiously avoid eye contact/looking anywhere near your direction for the rest of the journey? Or maybe it was just the final straw after not getting a seat for god-knows-how-many-weeks?

I'm quite shy about these sort of things and would never ask (unless I thought I was going to keel over), but would also never tut about it (not outside of my own head anyway ) but I remember when I was around 34 wks pregnant with DS I was on a v.busy train from London to Wales at 5pm on a friday evening - I was stood by the luggage racks and would have loved a seat but wasn't that troubled by it...It was all the other people standing around me who were making tutting noises and saying stuff like "you should have a seat, love" bless 'em... I was a little embarrassed by it, but grateful anyway...No-one gave up a seat though, until lo and behold, we pulled in to Reading station where loads of people were getting off and be-suited men leaving the train were falling over themselves to offer me their seat how thoughtful of them!

MQ: "i don't actively scan every person who enters the bus or train" - er...actually, I do!

I think it's my civic duty to look out for people who are less well off than I am - there but for the grace of god go I, etc etc. So even if I am engrossed in an amazing book I always look up at every station and check whether someone has got on that may need a seat.

I am also one of those women who offered a seat to a heavily pregnant woman when I was about 5 months preg, as I decided she needed it more.

Spam - I can totally understand how you would feel less assertive when preg, perhaps that's also how I felt. However I think the principle is a bit like the do I/ don't I vote when I don't believe in any of the parties - we Brits (I'm assuming you're British!) have a tendency to moan in the background when nobody is around that can actually do something about our complaints. And then we leave it at that. And don't vote. Or don't ask directly for what we want. And we end up miserable and in a vicious cycle of misery and complaint.

Of course people should always, always offer seats to physically vulnerable people, but given that in the UK they generally don't - at least not in the big metrops like London - we have to ask ourselves: 'what am I going to do about it?'. And if, for whatever reasons, we don't take responsibility for changing things, we are guilty in our own way of not changing society. Don't you think?