Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that good manners in children are overrated?

273 replies

mrsruffallo · 19/05/2009 11:01

Manners seem so important to some parents. Personally, I don't believe in forcing them to say sorry, please, thank you, hello, goodbye etc.
If it is a genuine emotion they say it naturally anyway
AIBU?

OP posts:
catsmother · 19/05/2009 11:57

As many others have already said manners are about consideration and respect for others. They take minimum effort and (usually) encourage other people to be nice back to you. They also teach kids that they're not the only people on the planet, and that other people have feelings too.

For example, saying thanks is a given - even if what you've been gifted (for example) is something you don't like. You're not saying thanks for the item itself, but for the thought put into it. Allowing a kid to only ever say thanks when they "mean it" would mean an awful lot of upset grannies when child rudely declares they don't like the jumper granny lovingly chose.

Basic manners are also building blocks - it plants a very basic message about being nice and polite to other people. If you get the basics right, chances are that the child is more likely to grow up thinking about the effect their actions have on other people before they act - instead of being a spolit selfish brat who thinks only of themselves. If you don't enforce basics like hello, goodbye, thanks, please and sorry, you are effectively teaching the child other people's feelings don't matter and you can do what you want regardless of upsetting others. Like MrsJammi, my family too is having to deal with this sort of crap upbringing (or should that be dragging up ?) in certain family members .... kids who must apparently be allowed "to express themselves" no matter what, which means that foul rudeness was/is never disciplined (and justified as them expressing themselves) and who are taught that the only thing that matters is getting what they want (and sod anyone else). Needless to say, the basic manners are absent too.

mulranno · 19/05/2009 11:58

Your children will miss out and be treated with indifference or even contempt if they do not have in place the basic social skills which are manners. If you want your children to be warmly embraced by society and not given the cold shoulder you have the responsibility to encourage good manners. If you cant insist on them for others do it for your children...and society will benefit as well.

However I do think that there are common basic manners and then others that are specific to family routines. My children have to observe that everyone has finished eating before they can ask to leave the table. Their friends vary between just leaving the table when finished (rude)...to asking if they can leave, whilst others are still eating (polite but a different routine). They also have friends who ask please may they start to eat (polite) ..whereas mine just start as we are a big family...but some might see mine therefore as rude.

Overmydeadbody · 19/05/2009 11:59

I agree mrsruffalo, ehile manners are important children learn by example and I will not force my child to say hello, goodbye or sorry etc etc

I encourage by example.

StripeyOss · 19/05/2009 12:00

YABVU. It is VITAL that children are taught good manners.

but i suppose if thats how you feel about manners then it goes a long way to explaining the reason behind your tone in a lot of your posts.

BonsoirAnna · 19/05/2009 12:02

mulranno - we tell the children that they are not to start eating until the maîtresse de maison (lady of the house) has started eating. We did have a couple of embarrassing experiences at other people's houses when the DSSs had wolfed down their meal before others had even been served!

MoChan · 19/05/2009 12:02

Manners are important, and they need to be taught. It would be ludicrous to view this as forcing something on them. As ludicrous as saying we shouldn't force them to learn to read.

My daughter hasn't learned 'please' or 'sorry' yet, but she always says thank you when you give her something. I have never told her to do this, in fact, but just led by example, and she has followed. She's 21 months old at the moment. If she hadn't followed my lead on this, I would have encouraged it another way.

AramintaCane · 19/05/2009 12:03

FrankMustard it is cruel not to give somthing if a child suffers from a disorder that makes it impossible for them to say please.

thirdname · 19/05/2009 12:04

As a "non-English" person I used to be impressed about how polite the English were with all their "thank you" and please". Later I changed my mind, it's used as an "automatic phrase" and prefer the "rude" people from my country, less polite but at least more direct to you in your face so you know where you stand instead of the polite way of saying something nice but saying the opposite behind once back.
Ofcourse I wouldn't agree with dc snatching, and not saying thank you when they get a birthday present etc.

catsmother · 19/05/2009 12:05

Quite obviously I am sure that no-one would condone witholding things from children who quite literally are unable to say please or thankyou. Jeez.

wilbur · 19/05/2009 12:06

Sorry, I really, really think that children need to be taught these things. Yes, I know that when my 3 yr old sings out "Sorreeee" after doing something hideous, he is not truly remorseful for what he has done, but if he never learned to say it and gradually appreciate what the word means, then I think he would become a deeply unpleasant older child and adult. There are plenty of things we teach our children to do so that life in our society will be easier / pleasant for them, so why not manners? It's like saying I'm not going to teach my child to read, as he'll master it on his own when he's older.

thirdname · 19/05/2009 12:07

O, and in my dh culture it is NOT custom for everyone (including adults) to finish before leaving the table. ...Or maybe all his friends and family that I have met are rude....

AramintaCane · 19/05/2009 12:07

Ahh but they do - that is my point. There are some people who are so uptight about it that they do withold things. This is despite my explaination. This has lead me to beleive that people in this country are OTT about please and thankyou.

AramintaCane · 19/05/2009 12:09

sorry crosspost catsmother

minxofmancunia · 19/05/2009 12:14

YABVU I'm obsessive about manners. It puts me off adults when they've got poor manners, e.g. if we g to a restaurant and their conduct is poor I won't eat out with them again, poor manners make me cringe.

Dd is only 2 but I'll admit I'm fanatical about please, thankyou ans orry + reasonable table manners, and people comment on how lovely it is that she says thankyou naturally (although she does get please and thankyou mixed up sometimes!).

MiL has appalling manners, well make that none and dhs manners when I met him were pretty shocking. I've had to retrain him! Now he finds his mothers interaction with people pretty cringeworthy too and sometimes has a gentle word with her about the awful way she speaks to people. the rest of his family are the same.

Must be a Yorkshire thing

Original poster
mrsruffallo · 19/05/2009 12:52

Thank you all for your replies

I do appreciate the feedback.

I posted this after witnessing an awful say please,I said say please. now say thank you-say thank you NOW or we will go home bully of a mother really give her child a hard time. He was only about 2 and I just thought it was rather ott.
My children are taught respect and courtesy and they are not rude, actually quite polite, I just feel it has been taken too far by a certain type of parent.

Anyway, thanks again

OP posts:
Original poster
mrsruffallo · 19/05/2009 12:56

OMDB, by example is my favoured method of learning too, I guess I don't believe in being all over my children.

Thank you, Araminta, that is just what I meant

StripeyOss- How very rude

OP posts:
Gateau · 19/05/2009 12:57

Have seen similiar from parents too, OP, and it is out of order.
But that's the extreme end of the spectrum from simply instilling good manners in your children. Your initial post didn't mention what you were really getting at.

AramintaCane · 19/05/2009 13:05

No, Thank you mrsruffallo. We are so polite arn't we . No wonder our kids are so lovely .

I have witnessed similar things myself. One mother I know smacked a thank you out of her son at home time. I would rather go without a thank you of that sort.

wolfnipplechips · 19/05/2009 13:08

Manners are hugely important for socialising children in our society, whether they feel the emotion or not they have to learn or people will think ill of them later on.

My dd 4yo is shy and often forgets to say thank you when given something and has to be repeatedly reminded, so am i a bad parent for that.

Othersideofthechannel · 19/05/2009 13:34

daftpunk what was the gift that made your 7 yr old burst into tears?

Nancy66 · 19/05/2009 13:40

Mrs Ruffallo I completely agree with you.

I can't bear it when I hear parents constantly saying: 'say please/sorry/thank you' - over and over again. Usually to a child that has no damn idea what it is they are saying.

If your child is raised in a loving, kind, thoughtful and respectful home he or she is going to pick all this up eventually anyway, no need to ram it down their throat.

Spaceman · 19/05/2009 13:45

DD is lovely in (almost) everyway, but she never says her p's & q's. The more I try to try and get her to say it the more she'll dig in her heals, stick her lip out and refuse. So long as the parents are trying to install manner, there's not always a lot else you can do unless you're up for a parent/child showdown. They ARE hugely important though and having none will hold an individual back in life.

Miyazaki · 19/05/2009 13:46

I have a really painfully shy child and I agree re the not standing over her and shrieking say thank say thank you say thank you. She just hates the attention. We model our behaviour and she does say please, thank you, may I get down from the table and so on, but I would not force her. I trust her, and I know that she will find a quiet time to hug somebody, but she will clam up in the spotlight, but she is not a rude child and I will not treat her as if she is.

junglist1 · 19/05/2009 13:46

I want my children to be liked, which is why I expect them to say please and thank you. All children forget though at times, then I just prompt them. One child had just walked into my house and 2 seconds later said "I want a drink". The mum was there and just poured one. I was because manners are very important in other peoples houses. The child was 6 by the way.

Lucifera · 19/05/2009 13:51

Not sure about the "pick it up" theory. My DP has a nephew in his 30s who never says please or thank you; there are lots of nice things about him but this drives me bonkers! His mother said to DP recently "I do wish X would say please and thank you, but he never did as a child either." !!!!!