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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that good manners in children are overrated?

273 replies

mrsruffallo · 19/05/2009 11:01

Manners seem so important to some parents. Personally, I don't believe in forcing them to say sorry, please, thank you, hello, goodbye etc.
If it is a genuine emotion they say it naturally anyway
AIBU?

OP posts:
Heated · 22/05/2009 00:10

In the day-to-day contact I have with teenagers, nearly all have really nice manners; they're just a really nice bunch of young people who clearly have been dragged up properly, so I infer that parents do think it's important.

Teenagers are quick to notice a breach in good manners too. I once worked in a school where the Head in her daily debrief with Ofsted team (in the days when they used to be there for a whole week) told him the students had officially complained about the Ofsted inspectors lack of good manners Students were opening doors for them a mile down the corridor and the inspectors were just sailing through without any acknowledgement and their warm & smiley responses to questions was being met with blank, unsmiling stares. How I would love to have been there for that meeting! Must have worked though. Never seen so many grinning inspectors, although I suspect some were more grimaces of pain.

tusker · 22/05/2009 00:18

i also think that manners are important its all a part of respect for other people.call me old fashioned but i beleive that if we all showed more respect for others the world would be a nicer place(smile)

BBisfinallyPG · 22/05/2009 08:41

YABU

a badly mannered child shows parents who dont care enough to positively reinforce the pleasant behaviour. I cannot stand children who do not say please and thank u, itws bloody ridiculous.

hellsbelles · 22/05/2009 09:10

I totally agree that good manners are important and always encourage my DS to be polite. But how far should we go? For instance we have a lady that comes in once a week to help (when I have to get some work done) and she always asks how DS is - and he says fine. I said to him the other day (out of her earshot) - perhaps it would be nice to ask Sophie how she is too ....and he looked at me and said 'I'm not really that interested as she always says the same thing!' I know that sounds horrid but I can see his point - and I'm worried he'll be insincere if I push him into it. Should I push the point?

HEATED - your point makes me smile. When walking round with my DD in her pram there are narrow bits on the pavement and alleys. Quite a few times I see gangs of teenagers on their bikes coming towards us and my heart always sinks...and they always surprise me...by making way for us or stopping and they always smile. It's so unexpected (even though I should be used to it now!)

piscesmoon · 22/05/2009 09:19

Groups of teenagers can seem menacing but I often find that if you smile and are polite they are the same back.
I don't think that you want to constantly pressurise DCs-for example- asking someone how they are back is quite an adult thing-he will do it when ready. I don't like it when they are OTT as in 'thank you mummy, that was a delicious meal' every day-it is insincere.
I think it is just a question of them copying.
The first time my DS asked for something in a shop, when he was about 5yrs, I was quite impressed because he went up to the assistant and said 'excuse me but.....'I hadn't told him what to say but he had obviously taken in my approach.

hellsbelles · 22/05/2009 09:41

Thanks Piscesmoon - you are right - it is a more adult thing. I suppose I'm just accutely aware of the way DS interacts as DH really doesn't have great manners (he just doesn't really care!) - which I hate hate hate. And I don't want DS to pick that up.

kif · 22/05/2009 09:59

My DH has an ironic line in boarish scatalogical humour (comedy farts, poo jokes and such like).

I'm having to have words with him along the lines of 'look - the kids will copy you in public and will look feral'.

hellsbelles · 22/05/2009 10:06

{grin} - I am the worst offender on the scatalogical humour front (having been bought up on it!) so I've no hope of DS & DD avoiding that!!!

dawntigga · 22/05/2009 10:08

IMNSHO manners are the lubricant of society and help ease a path through social interaction. Oooer hark at the big words from somebody who has problems putting matching socks on

Not using please/thank you etc irritates the machinery and offends without cause ymmv.

Dawnxx

TiggyR · 22/05/2009 10:20

Haven't got time to read all of this right now - so I'll just say: 'Oh Dear'.

I am a stickler for good manners, which is not the same as poncy, frequently pointless etiquette so do be sure not to confuse the two. The latter could be deemd largely unnecessary and outdated, but the former is essential for a happy healthy society.

I have always been complimented on my children's good manners, which delights me and makes me proud and relieved that in all probability they will turn out to be decent, pleasant, approachable, and socially responsible adults. (currently 16, 14 and 9 now.) I am singularly unimpressed by children (or adults) who are rude, brusque, inappropriately outspoken or loud and have few social graces and never say please and thank you. If they are not pulled up early enough they will turn into the sort who think it's ok to push past a queue, swear, shout and be aggressive in public, be anti-social neighbours and general all round pains in the arse. OP thinks it's a sign of weakness to say 'sorry'. How interesting.

TiggyR · 22/05/2009 10:52

OK, working my way through this bit by bit - reached p.5 now!

There seems to be lots of talk about cutlery. Yes of course it's important to teach your children to use cutlery correctly. The basic rules of table manners are there for good reason. Just sit opposite someone who is oblivious to them and see how quickly you feel sick, or just decide that they are an uncouth peasant.

Secondly, some people seem to be confusing teaching manners with 'forcing' children to parrot pleases and thankyous at too young an age. No-one condones forcing anything on two year olds but gentle persuasion and encouragement is perfectly fine. Don't assume they will just pick it up without any need for reminders. I know plenty of perfectly polite adults with perfectly rude obnoxious children, because they've not, for whatever reason, found it necessary to reinforce their own example with firm but gentle reminders.

My sister's four children are all very nice, sweet, good natured, honest and decent young people (aged 14-19)_but they all lack basic good manners, etiquette/social graces, and they speak appallingly so struggle to express themselves clearly at times. The result is that they come across as rather brash, uncouth, selfish, rude, abrupt, ungrateful, sullen, and frankly, thick as pigshit. They aren't, actually any of those things. I know that, but the rest of the world, including future employers, does not. They base their first impressions on what they see and hear.

Do your children a huge favour OP. Start encouraging them to show a bit of respect to others, and don't make assumptions that because you are not offended by them, others won't be.

hellywobs · 22/05/2009 12:53

I think manners are very important. But I also think we should make sure our kids learn some assertiveness and don't always allow people to get away with things because they feel it would be impolite to complain. For example, if they are are eating out (in a restaurant ie paying for it, not if someone else has cooked it for them ag aunt) and they think the meal is bad, or if someone is listening to a walkman too loudly on a train (though in that case you might be worried about being thumped if you say anything!)

TiggyR · 22/05/2009 14:54

You are right hellywobs, but the point about the person with the loud walkman just demonstrates that so many people display an arrogant inconsiderate 'me me me' attitude, and sod anyone else. They have an over-inflated sense of self importance and they think that to adapt their own wants/needs to allow for the wants/needs of others, or to acknowledge the wishes/feelings of others is somehow demeaning. Where does that attitude come from? Which, directly or indirectly, is why everyone, including the OP should encourage their children to observe the basic rules of manners and respect for others.

Also, assertiveness in polite charming people is so much more effective than assertiveness in someone rude and charmless -they just come across as bolshy and aggressive. So, OP if you want your children to grow up rude, charmless, bolshy and aggressive then carry on, by all means.

SamsMama · 22/05/2009 16:17

Is saying "you're welcome" really an American thing? (I forget who posted that it was.) Genuinely curious here.

minko · 22/05/2009 16:27

I shared a house with a German girl at college. We got on really well to begin with but the fact she never said 'please' or 'thank you' grated so much that I completely resented her after 3 years of co-habiting. We're no longer in touch obviously...

MrsHarry · 22/05/2009 17:19

Minko, back to my comment before, but is that because 'please' and 'thank you' isn't used much by Germans in their own language? I don't actually know, never having spoken it. But can you see how (if that were the case) she wouldn't think it was rude?

BigBellasBeerBelly · 22/05/2009 17:34

samsmama i certainly think of "you're welcome" as being american and it's not something i use or hear others use.

SamsMama · 22/05/2009 17:38

Really? Interesting! Do you say something like "no problem" or just nothing at all?

BigBellasBeerBelly · 22/05/2009 17:51

Um I'm not sure samsmama.

Let me think...

depends who it is i suppose. If it's something like I've held a door open for someone and they say thankyou I think i just smile.

If Dh thanks me for something like cooking his supper, i might say "no problem" or "don't be silly" or something i suppose.

For me there isn't a social code for responding to thank you, I just do what i feel like at the time.

Are you american samsmama? or do you say it and are surprised that others don't? Or something?

Thunderduck · 22/05/2009 17:53

I don't think of you're welcome as an Americanism. I've used, and heard it from others,throughout my life.

BigBellasBeerBelly · 22/05/2009 17:53

it's going to be one of these regional things isn't it.

minko · 22/05/2009 18:25

MrsHarry - my mum's also German. I can confirm that please and thank you is pretty important over there too!

Alambil · 22/05/2009 19:48

There was a little boy at school the other day who'd put his football in my playground area (the nursery one is seperate)

I was outside and he bellowed at me to get it for him.

I walked over, picked it up and took it to him - I gave it to him and stood there holding it til he tried to walk off... I didn't let go til he'd made an effort to say thank you (in fact he said please, but I think he was confused lol)

I find it sad that it wasn't automatic though

My DS says it automatically as it's been instilled in him from since he could speak that it's just done - you want a biscuit, you ask nicely and use "please" ... it is just the way things are.

MrsHarry · 22/05/2009 20:47

minko - ah, that blows that theory then...my apologies!

BTW I use 'You're welcome' quite a lot, without really thinking about it.

ItsMeMargaret · 23/05/2009 01:08

If 'you're welcome' worries you, you could go all broad Austrayan and respond with 'no worries, maate' or terribly clipped and English with 'not at all'.

Back to the OP, YABU. It can be painful to watch a parent relentlessly push a toddler to say 'ta', but that doesn't mean you shouldn't begin teaching manners early, it should just be done in a less demanding way. Several posters have said they don't see the point in teaching manners to toddler, but that they dislike rude 6 or 7 year olds. I think that you need to start teaching manners from the beginning if you want your average 7 year old to display them. It takes time and practice and starting too late can make it a much, much bigger drama than simply reinforcing basic good manners from the beginning.

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