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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to move DD to a new school?

392 replies

lyneham · 13/05/2009 18:21

I have started a new job and am moving into a new house closer to the new job, and also moving in with DP

I want to move DD school from September so that it will be easier to drop her off and collect her from before/after school clubs, she is in reception at the moment.

My problem is that DD goes to her Dads house every other week and he has said that he wont agree to a change of school, partly because his DWs DCs go there, and he says it would make it very difficult for school runs for them every other week.

We live in a city and it would be about 2 miles, AIBU to want to make my life easier?

OP posts:
BonsoirAnna · 15/05/2009 21:09

When there are two perfectly adequate parents and homes after divorce, surely it is in the best interests of the child to spend a similar amount of time (not necessarily precisely 50:50) at both?

I think that the idea of a child's main residence (probably with the mother) after divorce is an outdated notion. I very much doubt that anything other than shared residency after divorce will be the norm 20 years hence.

yerblurt · 15/05/2009 21:13

dongles

You yourself admit that you have not practised as a solicitor for 6 years - and based on your advice I am glad you are not in the field.

Your advice stinks. You are coming onto this board and doing nothing more than stir the situation up and trying to stir up business for more of the bottom-feeders such as yourselves.

Who would 'win' in all of this? Not the child, or mum, or dad - only the ilk of you lot would. This case is hopeless as a sole res application by mum and you should admit it.

You say the Courts do not 'like' share res for a child of such an age.

Absolute piffle. My daughter was 4 when a shared residence order was made.

You should also know (although probably doubtful now because your knowledge is so out of date) that there is substantial psychological research, publications from DfES, numerous well respected academic psychological studies, and most importantly a huge raft of case law from the Court of Appeal on shared residence.

I know this because I used it, I didn't use the terrible services of a parasite such as a solicitor who is there to make money.

I went LIP with an experienced McKenzie friends and we wiped the floor with the other party. As this dad will.

The child's welfare is paramount, the 'paramouncy' principle.

As per the welfare checklist of the Children Act, you should of all people know that the Court should have regard to the current status quo. There has been a shared care arrangement in place for 5 months (a long time from a child's point of view).

This is the reality of the child's life. She has two homes of equal value. There should be no change in the circumstances (another welfare checklist point) unless it would be in the child's best interests... the child has a blended family with numerous sibling. There is another child on the way - even more important that there should be no change of circumstances.

There is a hell of a lot of case law (many of which I used) on the above points.

There is case law for shared residency over a large geographical distance.

There is case law that says that the parents do not have to "get on" (as they wouldn't be in the court arena in the first place and the no order principle would apply) - this was a common misconception until the Court of Appeal dismissed this.

There is case law that there should no presumption of which sex should be the 'primary carer'.

There is fluid transition between both homes (backed up by case law).

Shared res does not have to mean 50:50. All shared res means is that the child has 2 homes of equal value and both parents are equal in the eyes of the child. i.e. there is no 'good' parent and no 'bad' parent (or one parent who does all the 'work' and the other that has all the 'fun' time).

Heck, even CAFCASS in their latest leaflets for information for parents (on the cafcass website) recognise that children should feel that they have 2 homes ... from this shared care and shared naturally flow.

There would have to be clear benefits to the child of moving to another school (what is it's ofsted report like?), what about splitting up of the existing family structure for schools?

This case is hopeless as an application for sole residency and you should be ashamed to even try to suggest it.

It would NOT be in OP's best interests (or the child's) for this to go to contested hearings.

By all means have a shared res order by consent - but as this arrangement has already been drawn up and mutually agreed at Mediation then it's going to be damn hard to convince a Court and CAFCASS that anything else should happen.

All that will happen is that mum will lose loads of money and it will get converted into the BMW fund for the parasitic solicitors.

btw having gone LIP I now act as a McKenzie friend and your advice not only stinks but is hopelessly out of date.

dongles · 15/05/2009 21:14

But BA, are you speaking from the comfort zone of a non marriage situation, where your DP has considerbly less legal rights than you do?

BonsoirAnna · 15/05/2009 21:16

We aren't married but DP has full parental responsibility for DD in both France and England.

BonsoirAnna · 15/05/2009 21:17

And of course I cannot take DD to live in another country than France without his consent...

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:18

Absolutely BA, I agree. It is definitly becoming more normal.

TBH I do feel it is about time that parents were thought of as parents after divorce rather than mother/father. Often the reason for a non 50/50 split is to do with who works what hours and so on. That, IMO should not mean that one becomes a NRP (and takes the cut in say in their child) unless there are very good reasons!

dongles · 15/05/2009 21:19

yerblurt, you are in fact repeating a lot of the points that I made in previous posts (except in a very aggressive manner).

PortoPandemico · 15/05/2009 21:24

lyneham, actually after all of this, I really feel for you. I totally understand where you are coming from, from an emotional point of view, even if I don't agree with what you want to do.

You have a small child (same age as my dd in fact). I know full well that if I only got to spend every other week with her, then I would be distraught! I would be looking for every possible opportunity to change that.

But at the end of the day, the advice on this thread, from all of us impartial people, is correct. It is so easy for us to see the "bigger" picture because (mostly) we are not actually living with this.

Your dd has TWO parents. She deserves an equal relationship with both of them. The BEST thing you can give her is lots of love, and to try hard to make your peace with exH and his new family. And I know that will be fecking hard for you.

In my opinion Mums are always special. She will always have a special bond with you. Don't "force" it. I had miserable teenage years because of the animosity between my maternal grandparents (who bought me up as my mum died young) and my dad, who entered into a new relationship. I stayed living with them because i no choice, but I HATED them for what they were doing.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:24

Dongles, that has not been the case for a long time (a non married father having less rights), even with no PR he could get it in next to no time in court if there was no exceptional reason not to. (And it would really have to be exceptional, courts are now trying to rectify the situation that has changed in law so PR is given out to biologicals very readily as it is now recognised that it should have been given at birth).

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:28

Porto, the thing you are forgetting in understanding the ops distress is that this is not a situation that has been forced on her in a court of law, it is the situation she agreed to in mediation. Lyneham agreed to shared residency with a week about arrangement.

If you had agreed the situation in mediation would you still be looking for every opportunity to change it? Honestly?

yerblurt · 15/05/2009 21:29

dongles - never mind, as a solicitor I'm sure you were never shy in coming forward or prepared to defend your position!

The points need re-iterating to direct the OP towards a more constructive way forward.

Your legal 'advice' is pretty out of date and reflects the thinking that is becoming more and more out of date.

Shared res works - it's better for the children in the long term. It makes the parents work for the benefit of the child, because both parents are equal in the parental hierarchy.

The Courts are ordering shared residency more frequently now, and you are wrong in your proposition that they aren't ordered for young children. The times they are a changin' as someone said.

dongles · 15/05/2009 21:30

KC, you are making me want to dig out my old law books now and that takes some doing!

ElenorRigby · 15/05/2009 21:31

Typical low life passive aggressive speak from you there dongles, very predictable

People of your ilk have no interest in what's best for children but only in stirring up trouble to generate business for themselves or their colleagues.

I wonder do people like you enjoy the destruction you cause or do it just for the money, perhaps it's a bit both.

Disgusting...

OP never trust a solicitor. Whether they win or lose the case, they will collect your money. If you can't pay all at once, a direct debit or standing order will of course do nicely.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:34

Is that to get back in the fray or to prove me wrong?

I feel it is only fair to warn you though, you will never prove me wrong.... or at least not so as I will accept it

dongles · 15/05/2009 21:34

yerblurt, most solicitors aren't evil. Honestly. It's not a great job (I hated it), but I think you should tone it down a bit.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:36

TBF, I disagree with Dongles too but I don't think she deserves quite so much abuse!

PortoPandemico · 15/05/2009 21:38

King, I'm not referring to "law" or "mediation" or anything. We don't all the circumstances. I FULLY agree with the standard view point on here that OP is wrong to even consider what she is trying to do. And I have been critical of her earlier on in the thread. I don't believe she is right, and DO believe that things should stay as they are.

Maybe it's the wine, but I am just imagining how I would feel in those circumstances. What would I do? You see your 5 year old every OTHER week. DD goes off to play happy families with her new half brother/sister. I won't have any more dcs (OP never expanded on this) It would kill me.

I think that OP hasn't come over very well on this thread. It might be because she is genuinely selfish and horrible, or there might be more to it than that. I think all the advice still stands. I just wanted to extend a bit of empathy IFYSWIM.

dongles · 15/05/2009 21:41

ER, I probably shouldn't reply, but lawyers don't generally act unless they have been asked to do so by, err, other human beings. I also have a lawyer friend who works for a local authority on behalf of abused children. She works very hard for not great pay and actually helps a lot of vulnerable children.

yerblurt · 15/05/2009 21:43

dongles.

I believe you that most sols aren't 'evil' , however, in my experience of family law I have found that the pressure is racked up, proceedings are drawn out, positions entrenched.

solicitors are becoming more desperate. I've seen the most ridiculous, downright offensive etc letters from solicitors who are members of Resolution, childrens law panel members.

And for this they are charging clients average £200 per hour! A simple PR and contact order case then becomes a £8k case.

Solicitors are responsible for their own pickle. The cuts in legal aid, proposed rise in family court fees, v. poor service many solicitors provide. Well it means that more people are going to go LIP, and we are picking up that fallout.

It's a situation of your own making and one thing is for sure - that family law system does not work. It's advesarial nature, delayed proceedings, throw-as-much-mud-as-you-can. It's not working for our kids and I don't want my child to be growing up in an era where that system is still there.

That's what motivates me.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:45

I know what you are saying Porto (how do you shorten your name BTW?) and I understand your point I am just saying that it is slightly different for the op as she helped choose this in mediation, you seem to be looking at it as if it were something that had been forced on you.

I agree that, if this were a situation forced on you it would be devestating, however, having had a hand in the divising of the situation you have to have a different viewpoint don't you?

I understand the empathy point, I really do. But the op has done nothing but continue to attempt to justify herself in ever increasingly ridiculous ways, I do think selfishness comes into it!

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PortoPandemico · 15/05/2009 21:52

I have NO idea how mediation works I must admit. So say, both parents want full residency and you compromise in the middle by splitting 50/50. If both parents can offer a perfectly good home, then that sounds like a reasonable solution? ExH has his new wife and extra dcs. He's happy with 50/50. OP isn't so happy but doesn't want to go down the legal, expensive route, and agrees to go along, only to find later that actually this scenario makes her truly UNhappy.

It is the best solution, based on the knowledge we have. In mediation, I can only imagine they agreed with that. It doesn't change how you FEEL about it though.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/05/2009 21:55

Oh, please kill this one Shiney... I am sure the op has now heard every opinion or thought I could possibly have had on the subject but I just cannot step away...

hermionegrangerat34 · 15/05/2009 21:58

Haven't read the whole thread - seeing it has 373 posts I suspect it has moved on a lot from the OP! - but in response to the OP i just wanted to say that I moved towns for a new job the summer when ds was in between reception and yr1, and thought he would be fine moving schools - he was eventually, but it took a LONG time, and he still, 3 years later, misses very sorely the friends he left behind. His education took a big hit, and he was very disruptive in class (and hence not learning) for a good six months. I am having very definite second thoughts about moving again in the school years, despite my job being one where you really have to move every few years for promotion. For 2 miles, I'd leave her where she is.

PortoPandemico · 15/05/2009 21:58

King, I have to admit, I thought earlier on, that OP is made of strong stuff/totally unfeeling/troll as she kept coming on back! It's a sad situation that i hope I never find myself in! I think I shall go off and seek the BBBAAARRRR...

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