tp think this mother should have disciplined her ds's?

[cheshirekitty]

Work in a NHS outpatients department. One woman had her two sons with her - ages about 6 and 8. The boys where running about the waiting room, running about the corridors leading to the clinic rooms.

We do procedures in our clinics, so often women may feel a bit weak etc after seeing the doctors.

Mum made no effort to check her sons, so I asked them to stop running about. The younger son then said something to me (not nice). Mum ignored it all.

AIBU to think she should have exercised some parental control?

Actually that's what I do with DS1 Kimi, showing you care about the behaviour is a massive part of it.... ds1 might not be able to change what he does but making an effort to show I do not condone it is important for all involved.

DS3 can hardly talk so can't really make him say sorry; I would still give him a clear no but I would hope that the other party would then forgive him not looking / pulling away / probably laughing

Putting on 'the show' of discipline is important IMO regardless of whether you think it'll make a damned difference. I may as well have 'aggression is not OK' tattooed on my head for the amount I say it, but I will continue if it makes other people feel better.

nor can it be used as an excuse, all too often the three things that come up is
A you are judging
B parent could be having a bad day
C could be sn

Can just for once it be said it is down to bad sloppy parenting or naughty children

It's not an excuse Kimi, if you have a child with some presentations of SN it is a reason

Not for not trying- and as I have said repeatedly chances are this was a lazy Mum- but some kids you can try all you like, and still get not very far at all.

Now, if you have a bolter you'll probably be using reins or in a panic (I must look like I am on amphetamines I get so jumpy when in thsi typew of situation) but sometimes they slip away esp. if like mine ATM they are occasional- runners.

I find it best to extend benefit of the doubt (that doesn't mean I wouldn't be annoyed, but if I can do that it makes me think better of humanity and life nicer IME). You think bad day and that's not enough well no, but how bad a day? maybe she could be having the worst day ever; maybe her DH in in hosital, her Mum died last week, her- well bad day can be terrible.

Absolutely we have a responsibility to try to teach our children manners, behaviours, and to do this is a demonstrabe way as that does help iothers feel less slighted. However, that doesnt mean we can't try and think why a person might be acting in a way we don't like, and extend a bit of generosity.

Yes but m point is we do not know if she was having a bad day, we do not know if her childern are sn but all too often I see on here well maybe ......insert from above.
Point being it seems no one ever wants to say well yes that is unacceptible.

DS2 who is not SN was a runner, I think I have ost count of the Linford Christy sprints I did after him when he was small.
DS1 is SN and yes sometimes I have to explain to people why he does what he does but if it is something wrong I will not use his SN as an excuse....

example yes he might have said at the top of his voice "that woman is so fat last thing she needs is that cake" because he could not stop himself from saying it (he does not get the social niceness that stops us saying it) so I am sorry he can not help saying it but it was rude and i would explain to him it was rude and make him say sorry...

And as for bad days some of the ones I have had you could not make up but I would still tell my children off for telling someone to F off

Mia it's not that she's identifiable to others cos she's not but if the mum herself came on here and read this she would probably know it was about her. Or if the mum had gone home and said to a friend or relative what a shit day she'd had and they came on here they would probably know it was about their friend/relative. If that was me I wouldn't be happy about it.

I do not agree in making children say sorry. There is no point if they aren't actually sorry. It is meaningless. I see it so often at toddler groups. Say sorry .. no, say sorry ... no, say sorry or XYZ ... NO, I've told you to say sorry, say it ... WAAAAAAAAH!

So how is a child ever to learn discipline Nappy??? Of course they don't mean it, they don't understand the concept of sorry when they are a toddler. But if they never get in the habit of learning manners they will turn into brats very difficult children imo

They learn to say sorry by hearing you saying it to people in everyday life and if they should be saying sorry for something they've done then you ask them to say it - but if they don't say it then you don't keep trying to get them to say it. That just ends up in this ridiculous "arguement"

I'm so with you Kimi - people on here are so quick to blame appalling behaviour on a bad day or special needs, and in the meantime, antisocial behaviour is becoming more and more 'acceptable' as no-one wants to challenge it in case of being politically incorrect, fgs!!

We still don't know if the woman knew that her son told her to fuck off, do we?

All these assumptions about anti-social children, and parents not disciplining their children and bad mothers who let their children run riot and swear at others are very unfair. The OP has made a quick judgement of these children, and it seems that others on here have been very quiet to agree wholeheartedly and accuse her of being a bad or lazy parent.

How would the woman know that her son had told someone to fuck off if it wasn't brought to her attention fgs? None of us were there, we don't know what these children were like, and I for one would hate to think that someone witnessed a momentary lapse in my parenting, or witnessed my child doing something hideous and felt compelled to come on here and make a public judgement.

No, we don't know that this woman knew that her child had sworn at the op.
BUT we do know that both children were "running about the waiting room, running about the corridors leading to the clinic rooms."

Why wasn't the mother aware of where her children were and that they were making a nuisance of themselves. If she had kept them near her and attempted to keep them under control (or at least tried)then maybe the situation wouldn't have arisen that the child swore at the op. Why weren't they being supervised?

see I think kimi and lob are missing the point

we were not there, we cannot explain

so we are debating, posing scenarios, turning it on his head

quite frankly without that what would be the point of MN? how would we learn?

bad days oh yes i have had a competitively large share and at the worst I was probably not noticing the boys too much; thankfully I was at home waiting for the yay or nay as to whether dh was alive but had I been out, goodness only knows. He was, btw.

We learn by twisting situations to see angles we might never have thought of. Of course its not OK to swear and bump- if Kimi reads again shewill find many posts saying that, inc. from me. Goodness what a boring thread that'd make, 3 yanbu's and an odour of tumbleweed

nappy I think it is so unlikely that somebody could recognise themselves from the few details that have been given by the op and I do think that it is unfair that you are criticising the Op for venting on MN, when so many posts refer to a work situation.

The whole of the waiting room heard him tell me to fuck off (know this as every patient who went in to the docs office informed me of it).

Nappyaddict, can I put something to you. Say your 89 year old mum or grandmum was run over by a child in the reception area of a hospital and broke her hip? No one in the clinic had asked the children to stop running. Would you be happy?

Also, the child told me to fuck off. What if he said this to someone in a supermarket etc and they took offence at it? There are adults who might retaliate.

I made no assumptions about the mother. I just felt I was reasonable to expect her to explain to her children why swearing and running about is not acceptable.

Did the mother know? Are you absolutely sure she knew? Did you check? Was she deaf, perhaps? Did she have SN? Did you check that?

I'm not defending bad behaviour, but I'm a bit puzzled as to why you didn't report this verbal assualt and the health and safety concern that these children were posing. They should have been removed from the premises, surely, as priority?

Paolo - I hang my head in shame. I am probably used to being sworn at. Also the mother needed to be seen.

And by the time security come in these situations, the patient would have been seen and gone home.

Paolosgirl am at your post. we have already had the many possible examples of why the children may be behaving in the way they did and why the parent didn't react. Now we can start the why she may not have heard her lovely child tell the Op to F* off!

I am sorry, but this thread is getting stranger by the minute.

"They should have been removed from the premises, surely, as priority?"

I think the op response by telling the boys off and then getting on with things was a better response than this. Or are you saying that your way is a better alternative to someone reprimanding someone else's children when that person seems unwilling or unable to do so?
But presumably you were being sarcastic.

And it does look as though you are defending bad behaviour.

No - I'm saying that if the children running about was posing such a risk as to present a risk of an 89 year old breaking their hip as suggested by Chesire, then surely they should have been removed? The NHS is very strict on H&S and takes a dim view of patients verbally abusing staff.

Wasn't there a thread a month or so back where people were saying kids swear, that's the way it goes, and as parents they wouldn't want to be told about it, it's to be expected.

Sad to say thats not always true paolo. And they are only children, so I felt me saying "please do not run around the corridors" would be effective. Surely using security for children would have been 0TT?

"then surely they should have been removed?"

I agree if they kept on running around after they had been told. But to remove them before having a word is ott.
They were children, running around being stupid and possibly endangering infirm people. Their mother should have been the one to have a word with them. She didn't so the op did. and then was verbally abused. Totally out of order and still the mother did nothing. Why are you surprised that the op is a bit taken aback by this?

They were posing a threat to your patients - do you really think it would have been OTT to ask them to leave? Surely patient safety, esp the risk of broken hips in elderly patients is of massive concern? If my elderly mother was at risk of being knocked over by children running amok, and they didn't stop, I'd expect the hospital to ask them to leave.

Have you recorded the verbal abuse?

The point I am trying to make is that it is all too easy to blame it on a bad day or SN, when sometime just sometime it IS lazy parents and nasty children

Why so aggressive Paolosgirl?

The op had the situation under control and I'm sure would have continued to do whatever was necessary to ensure the safety of infirm patients. She appears to have acted with respect and common sense.

Just after the swearing bit, the mother and boys where called in to the docs office.

No, I did not record the verbal abuse. Again I hang my head in shame. But if it is a case of writing a report, or supporting my patients, my patients win every time. That does not make sense, sorry had a hard day in work. What I meant was I was the only nurse doing that clinic, so if I had stopped to record the abuse I would have held up the other patients, and that is not fair. And I knew once the mother had been seen, the problem would be gone from the department.