tp think this mother should have disciplined her ds's?

[cheshirekitty]

Work in a NHS outpatients department. One woman had her two sons with her - ages about 6 and 8. The boys where running about the waiting room, running about the corridors leading to the clinic rooms.

We do procedures in our clinics, so often women may feel a bit weak etc after seeing the doctors.

Mum made no effort to check her sons, so I asked them to stop running about. The younger son then said something to me (not nice). Mum ignored it all.

AIBU to think she should have exercised some parental control?

Cheshirekitty with respect you didn't mention the 'fuck off' part of in your OP - if you had, I don't think the responses would have been so lenient. I personally think you should have told the mother to control her children and asked her to take charge of the situation - they are her responsibility. Also, you are entitled by law, to go about your job free from verbal abuse, so again, you should have pointed this out to her. Maybe she was crapping herself about the Dr's appointment and her kids had special needs ... who knows ......

No, no, I wasn't attacking the OP or anyone on this thread, or saying that two wrongs make a right. Promise. Just making a semi-light hearted observation.

Maybe she thought the staff would bump her up the queue a bit if her kids were causing mayhem.

welshbyrd of course it is, no question about that!

But dealing with it doesn't necessarily work, not in the same way anyhow. And even then it hs limitations... for example if ds1 is on meltdown I can restrain him but I can't then also chase the others (which is why I almost never leave for such things alone, it would have to be an emergency).

As this child doesn't seem have a Sn it's by the by anyhow I would guess, certainly there are ill behaved children with lazt mothers about; but there are other situations is all. I would guess depressed / feeling V ill Mother is more likely in RL though.

peachy the OP clearly states
"Mum made no effort to check her sons, so I asked them to stop running about. The younger son then said something to me (not nice). Mum ignored it all."
which suggests to me, the mother wasnt interested

I accept 100%, children with and without disabilities, do not often respond to being told to sit still

but the original thread states the mother did nothing

Had the OP said, the mother was trying to sort out DD1 and DD2 was running wild, i would not have typed what i did. I think it was obvious a case of a lazy assed mother

Im aware ums struggle, hmmmm i know i do, but to see someone is doing something about a childs behaviour, is far different from a mother being sat down doing nothing

did you not read my last paragraph WB? where I agreed that indeed there are some lazy Mums in RL and probably not SN related?

OP: Have not read all of this thread but, as an ex NHS member of staff just wanted to add a point.

Regardless of who is right or wrong in judgement etc, NHS policy has a point on "Verbal Assault" and ANYBODY - adult or child should be removed by security. It was not a situation for you to risk being counter-accused for speaking to these minors that were not patients.

Also, as a mother of an autistic child, YES it is very possible that BOTH children were special needs (genetics) just as it was very possible they were not. You are, I assume, not qualified to diagnose ASD. So put yourself in a position by challenging them directly. Suggest, from both sides and with sympathy, that you do go challenge the parent and not the child in future. (They experience 5mins of discomfort for you it could be a career risked).

I REALLY don't see why people shouldn't tell other people's children off if they are behaving badly in a place where they shouldn't be - like a hospital. The OP was in a position of responsibility - she had a perfect right to ask for acceptable behaviour of anyone - of any age.

Seeker - Stats are 1 in 100 are autistic and it is on the increase. In NHS employment situation & blame culture it isn't worth risking being accused of discrimination or being insensitive.

i did read your last paragraph peachy, however, i just wanted to be clear on my thoughts

didnt want it misread in the way that people would think im not sympathetic to disabled, or behaviour problem children thats all

I hate the word discipline.

It is very possible for 2 brothers to have SN which affects their behaviour.

Also you say you spoke to the children directly cos you hadn't a clue who their mother was. Then one told you to fuck off. And then suddenly you know who their mother is and she was just watching and not saying a thing. so which is it?

If the woman was waiting to have a procedure then presumably she is probably ill and perhaps very worried about having this procedure done and was therefore feeling unable to cope and deal with her children once more that day. Perhaps she was at the end of her tether.

there is no excuse for having children behaving badly and swearing to adults

OK, will try and answer the questions. I was walking along the corridor, guiding a 89 year old patient to the doctors room. The two boys ran into me. I said "please do not run about the corridors". One boy said "fuck off".

Adults sitting in the waiting room saying/doing nothing.

Next patient I call to go in to doctors room is a woman with the two boys. That is how I know who the woman was.

I am the nurse running the clinic. No procedures involved.

All the facts, concised. So nappyaddict, what would you have done?

Colleagues fully supported me, by the way.

Not saying she should'nt but in RL most people don't think ...'oh that child may have a disability'...'the mum might be worn out / sick'..they just think...wtf...kids running around!! in the waiting area might cause an accident..

I'd have done same as you CK.
If my kids misbehaved in the realm of another I'd have no problems if they spoke to my child. I'd back them up.

Perhaps the mum didn't see her sons misbehaving. If he just said fuck off rather than shouted it she probably wouldn't have heard.

I would have done what you did and asked them to stop running about. I wouldn't have spoken to the mum.

I think hospital stuff shouldn't judge and should be more aware of the reasons why the mother may have been allowing this to happen. Some people are very scared of hospitals and it may be taking all their strength to be coping with being in a hospital waiting room. If you have children like this who take every last ounce of your strength to keep under control I can see why on occasion she may just think you know what I can't do this anymore especially if that happened to be combined with a worrying trip to the hospital.

" Seeker - Stats are 1 in 100 are autistic and it is on the increase. In NHS employment situation & blame culture it isn't worth risking being accused of discrimination or being insensitive."So there is a 1 in 100 chance that the children had some sort of special needs. That means that there is a 99 out of 100 chance that they were simply being brattish and their mother didn't have the inclination or, more likely, the energy or spirit or life force to deal with them. In which case it's a good thing that cheshirekitty stepped in to help.

And even if they did have special needs that made their behaviour hard to control, somehow they have to be prevented from crashing into old ladies. In which case it's again a good thing that cheshirekitty stepped in to help.

It still begs the question why did she bring the boys with her? Aged 6 & 8 surely they should be in school on a week day?? Also, if I were going to a hospital appointment that was causing me a great deal of stress, then the last thing I'd do is bring two kids who I have difficulty keeping in check. It's likely that she had the date for this appointment a while in advance - plenty of time to arrange childcare I'd have thought.

You've obviously never had a babysitter let you down at the last minute

There could be a number of reasons why the children weren't at school - home schooled, teacher training day, getting over D&V, 1st day of beginning treatment for headlice, pipe sprung a leak at school, school closed because of swine flu etc etc

Also I don't think I'd be happy if I came on MN one night to find a nurse from the hospital was posting this. How would you feel if it was you, or you found your child's teacher gossiping about you? Isn't there some sort of rule which prevents such people gossiping about their patients/pupils especially on the internet.

nappyaddict, all of things could be true. Doesn't get away from the fact the boys were behaving in a way that could cause serious injury to elderly or sick people. And of course, it could be that the mother just couldn't be arsed - that does happen too you know.

We don't know which mode the mother found herself in that day - can't be arsed or can't cope. I would have thought however if she was on the "I can't cope" side she would have at least apologised to the OP for her son's behaviour and given some idication that it was all getting on top of her by her demeanour. Fromwhat the OP said, it seemed as if she was oblivious and unconcerend which is what riled her.

And why shouldn't CK come on here and vent a bit. she hasn't identified the hospital or the woman or the boys. working in the NHS is hard enough - surely she can come onto an anoyomous forum and ask what we think about a situation at work?

The OP hasn't breached any aspect of confidentiality. For a start the children are not her patients. She hasn't identified what kind of clinic she runs, what hospital she works at, or even what area of the country she works in,given any names or identifying features so it'd be a bit difficult to identify anyone from the info. As to reasons why the children might be with her, getting over D&V or having headlice (not to mention Swine 'flu)would be even more reason for keeping them away from the hospital in the first instance!

Before nappy says I must live/work in cheshire, I don't. Picked my name because dd said I looked like a cheshirecat!!

I was at my doctors surgery the other day and was shocked to see 2 mothers allowing their dc's to run around the corridors leading to doctors rooms unattended, jumping on the chairs and little magazine table, ripping the magazines up and just running around. I know children are children, but in a medical centre, it is probably safe to assume that some people will be quite unwell and I felt these mothers could have at least tried to control their children and shown some consideration for others.
I'm not saying my ds1 always listens to me and does what he's told, but I hope people can see I do my best

After waiting months for appointments I certainly wouldn't keep my DS away from his or mine because of headlice!! Preschool said DS couldn't go back for 2 days even though he was only sick a teaspoonful amount 10 mins after he arrived one morning. Probably the combination of drinking a full bottle of milk and then running and jumping around like a loon. Again I wouldn't cancel an important hospital appointment because of something like that although I would if it was a proper sickness bug. Oh and as for swine flu unless you are actually showing any symptoms you can still mix with others even if you have been in contact with people who have it.

Why should the mother apologise? She wasn't the one running around and telling the nurses to fuck off. Once children are old enough to apologise for their own actions I don't believe a parent should have to apologise for them. I know when I've had days where I can't cope there's no way I would admit it to anyone let alone a complete stranger. It's not something you exactly want to admit.

It's not the confidentiality part that would annoy me. Cheshirekitty hasn't given away any details of the mother or her children so can't be guilty of that. I just wouldn't expect a nurse to gossip about her patients so publicly. Perhaps in the privacy of her own home yes, but not anywhere else. Slightly different but I volunteer at a preschool. The only time I would moan about a child there was if I was talking to staff about trying to reslove a problem to do with a child. Anything else would just be gossiping and inappropiate but that's just my opinion.

Nappyaddict, I have never asked for the mother to apologise. I was just so flabbergasted that a child would be allowed to swear at an adult and not be told off.

I was not gossiping about the patient.