to think it is a bit bad to trick a dp/h into having another child

[timmette]

Read a post on this lovely website and it has prompted me to ask - aibu to think it is wrong to con ( can't think of a better word)a dh into having another child when he has stated he doesn't want too? I just think it is morally wrong - I know it is none of my business but I am a bit
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..Snorbs I'm with you there...and this idea that 'you don't want to give me your sperm, that's fine I will get a donor and you can like it or lump it',,wow..imagine if that was the other way around!

I have to agree, men do have the right the same as women to say no to children. Imagine if a couple had a agreed no children (or no more) and agree on condoms, and he goes and pokes a load of holes in them to trick her into getting pregnant. Would that be ok, because "I knew she'd come round to it in the end"?

As for the woman who married her boyfriend knowing well that he said no kids yet, and she was 40? Either she married an idiot who doesn't understand basic biology, or she married a man who didn't want children. Either way, she chose to marry him, and if that means giving up her idea of children, thats her sacrifice. She knew the situation and went into it anyway, she has no right to trick him into fatherhood to fulfil her own desires.

Women have fought long and hard for reproductive control, equality, and freedom from the control of men in family life. Its a step too far to take our equality over the edge into inequality for men.

And how can you be happy in a relationship and parenthood based on lies and deceit. If you didn't decide together how your marriage works and whether you are having children, that by definition is NOT a good marriage, IMO.

I really don't believe that most of the babies fathered outside of main relationships are due to the fact their partner did not want children ..and I'm speaking about a man doing exactly what the woman would do..use an egg and surrogate mother..

My SIL wants a baby badly she is 29, my BIL doesn't and keeps coming up with excuses why they can't have a baby, he watches over her while she takes her pill, if something goes wrong, she is marched to the FPC and has to take the MAP. It will end in tears I think.. she really wants a baby, he has never said he didn't want babies, but makes up excuse after excuse...

She needs a different partner then, simple as that.

I posted earlier in this thread about DH participating in tests for a male pill twenty years ago - looks like things haven't really moved on much.

SparklyGothKat, if your SIL wants a baby badly and her dh is making excuses as to why they can't have one then she needs to sit down and have The Talk with him. Does he want babies? A simple yes or no. If it's no, then she knows where she stands, if it's yes then she needs to ask when, in fairly precise terms, i.e., in X number of years not in some amorphous, infinitely moveable "Later." or "Maybe in a few years time." or whatever. She needs a firm answer. Lack of having The Talk or waiting for a man who seems fairly not into the whole concept of fatherhood to change his mind leads to the sort of situation that other posters have mentioned.

Don't you think it's none of sparklygothcats business?
If the man is adamant he doesn't want kids and the woman is desperate to have some they need to come to that decision themselves (although if he's treating her like that now then there are other issues that need sorting out first-sgc-your brother sounds like a bit of a bully/control freak)

My partners decided that he didn;t want children or at least not enough to go through the fertility treatment I needed. So we separated (pretty amicably actually) and I went for it on my own.

He was absolutely within his rights to do what he wanted with his life. Binding him to a child he didn;t want would have been worng for him and wrong for a child.

she has spoken to me about it, but have never told her to have The Talk with him, its not my business, but I know its tearing her apart

Sparkly we had friends like that, she was desperate at 33 when they married to get started, he wanted certain things out the way first and to be in a secure big enough home.
As it happens she was panicing thinking they'd have to have IVF etc for nothing, they've got two children now at 40, naturally and he's lost his job so the security he craved has gone out of the window anyway, tis a funny old world.
At 29 if she loves him i'd keep quiet and see what happens lots can change in 5 years.

yes, he wants security, I know that. But its always something, pay off the car loan, pay off this loan,that loan, when we get our own place, when we get a council place (very unlikely) etcetc.. they have their own private rented flat, but its not good enough for a baby (apparently) He is 34 now and I know the next excuse will be he is too old....

just wanted to point out that my partners should in fact have been singular!

Being tied to a grumpy man for life who I'd conned in to having a child he didn;t want isn't my idea of how I want MY life to unfold either!

Interesting stuff.

In terms of finding a new partner - is it really that easy? Can a woman of 40 just walk out into the street and find the father of her children .

Of course it is true that in most aspects women do have the most power. The biological clock is still a fairly powerful limitor however. Therefore I would still argue that a man whose partner doesn't want children does have the option at 45 of finding someone else - a woman doesn't.

That said though, I don't agree with trickery over something so major.

that was my position brett girl - certianly wouldn;t have left it up to the chance of finding a new aprtner who wanted children - but there's more than one way to skin a cat

I wasn't 40 - I was 36 when I left my partner. But yes, I did go on to meet dh within weeks, although it was about 6 months before we started dating. But it was a chance I was prepared to take as I had got to the stage where I would have resented staying with him and not giving myself the opportunity to find someone else.

jopie i must defend my friend here. She was 34 when she married him and in no hurry to have kids herself. He did not say he didn't want kids, he said he didn't want them yet. Very soon, were his words. Five years have now passed, and she is not trying to trick him, she is looking at IVF with donor sperm.

Snorbs oh dear, you do sound exasperated with me! When I talk about the pros and cons of contraception I was talking about myself, not the whole of womankind. For me, it has allowed me to have a series of 'serious' relationships that have not resulted in me having the children I wanted because we never decided together to come off the jolly pill and have a baby. Frankly, I think that's a very difficult decision to take when you lead a free and exciting life with lots of things like careers and travel and whatnot (not me, I just wanted the love and the babies but hey ho). The pill brought huge freedoms but also some restrictions. I was talking about the restrictions.

And I know it's useful to resort to extremes in an argument but I don't know if it's very useful.

My friends who have done this? I think, wow, that was a dangerous game, how lovely it turned out well, because you could have been on your own. I think they accepted that was the risk. But I think they also knew very well that it would result in happiness, as it did, although maybe they were just lucky. I don't feel they are dreadful people. Neither do their husbands, neither of whom was born yesterday There are worse parenting methods but I won't start that know for fear of inviting further flaming.

So, since I hit 35, I have made a conscious decision not to avoid having children and to place the responsibility with the man. When the condom breaks don't ask me to take the morning after pill, don't expect me to terminate a pregnancy because it doesn't suit your lifestyle and don't expect a woman with a hollow clock ticking in her ear to say, oops don't get carried away, for I am twixt the floods.

I say it all in advance, they can take it or leave it.

And yes, I think on something as fundamental as are we going to have kids or not, a man should be able to make up his mind at the outset and stick to it. The only thing that would change his mind, surely, would be if the relationship deteriorated, and then he should leave anyway.

Misandry? No. Seems pretty fair and square to me and not dishonest. Nothing man/woman-hating in telling your partner how it is and letting them decide if they can live with it.

peachyfox - I took a not dissimilar appraoch when I cam e of the pill - told partner. I am not on the pill, the chances of me getting pregnant are small (fertility issues) but not impossible. If I get pregnant I will keep the baby, therofer it is up to you to decide how much you don't want children and use contraception accordingly.

It never happened but I wouldn't have felt in those circumstances that I was deceiving anyone.

Frankly it would have been a nightmare having children with that partner and I would have been a serial AIBU'er

I've already made clear what I think about Spermnapping..but if a person ultimatums..ie suggogate/sperm donor or you..that relationship is already severely damaged..I just think move on...

But Peachy you informed the person about the fact you would not be taking precautions so how is that Spermnapping?...blatant..non-pill taking ,condom poking,out right lying 'Yes dear, I did take the morning after pill'..now thats Spermnapping...but I do still wonder if I would want to be so devious...just not me I suppose...not to say I didn't think about it..