To want DS to go to nursery full time...?

[LadyOfWaffle]

He went from 3 mornings to 5 mornings over the last half term and is starting a new nursery on Monday that's 5 afternoons, but they have started a lunctime club so you can join a morning and an afternoon together. I am a SAHM but DS seems to need so much more than I can give him (he loves school so so much) and TBH I could do with the longer break to look after DS2 (who seems to take second place abit?) and start some college work. He has just turned 3, which makes me feel like I am coping out abit IYSWIM... I just feel guilty for even dreaming thinking about it.

mrz: "I am sure you did investigate your child/children's nursery but not all parents are so particular or even know what they should be looking for I'm afraid. I'm sure you have read the threads on Mumsnet saying as much."

I have not read threads in which parents say they use nurseries without checking them out first. There are lots of threads about parents who are dissatisfied with aspects of care and then come on mn to ask about it. That is good - I will be the first to say if I think the care is substandard.

If a parent has to use childcare and is always checking that their children continue to be settled and query the care if they think it is not right, it is not likely that the child will be left for long in a unsatisfactory setting, nursery, CM, nanny or otherwise.

Mn parents, by definition, care. Therefore, I find scaremongering (not saying you are doing this by quoting research) about long hours nursery is not helpful. Very likely, these mn parents will ultimately find a good childcare setting and be fine, like my dcs are.

What is used to inform national policy is not necessarily as relevant on a board like mn.

Sorry if I was unclear I meant threads from parents asking what they should be looking for and asking when checking out settings.

I think it is quite sad that you feel you can't stimulate a 3yo. There is more to a childs education than books, letters, numbers etc and ime there is nothing done in nursery that he can't do at home except socialise with other children the same age, so full time is excessive I think. What about trips out to soft play/parks/farms/nature walks/swimming etc that he will miss during the week. Not to mention distancing him from hisw brother

I also think its sad that people feel that children should be entertained every hour of the day. It is an important skill to teach them to entertain themselves and use their imagination.

"jesus wept for your sanity dont ask nursery questions on MN"

Never a truer word spoken scottishmummy.

dillydaydreamer i agree

kids are hyper stimulated these days

numbs the imagination imo

"Sweden places a strong emphasis on Social development in young children before academic." Eh yes....and so does the British nurseries. What? Do you think my 3 year-old is sitting there doing maths and rocket science?

"Early formal assessment is frowned upon."
I have never seen any formal assessments of my children ever. I have seen reports such as "fairymums child likes to draw pictures and talk about cakes". Hardly a formal assessment. Not sure what you are talking about here.

"A recent ODEC report highlighted that Sweden placed a greater emphasis on developing highly skilled practitioners than on paperwork." Again, I only get the "fairymums child likes to play in the sandpit and throw stones at the nursery manager (joke, but could be true if he spent 40 hours + in nursery I guess)so not sure what you mean.

Fairy mum - have a look at the Foundation Stage curriculum, particularly the maths and literacy areas. They should answer your questions about the type of expectations nurseries put upon 3 year olds.

And formal assessments are made on a daily basis. Staff spend a lot of time observing the children and writing up their observations rather than playing with them.

Isn't it just box-ticking though, rather than laborious writing up? I have had those assessments shown to me. I am absolutely fine my dcs have not been thoroughly assessed in that they probably further ahead than the nursery observed.

That is because the nursery staff are playing with them.

I know this because of what my dcs tell me what they did that day and because they have ruined yet another item of clothing with crafts and things they don't do with me at home.

Would it not be even worse in a CM setting where it is just one person having to do all these assessments? In a nursery, more hands to the pump for mindless Ofsted requirements.

And math and literacy for 3+ is just sensible stuff any parent would do with their children at home anyway. It is not sitting in rows with pencils poised. It is learning through play. Children don't have to make any kind of grade, just be gently exposed. Nothing gory, I would have thought.

mum23monkeys, "expectations nurseries put upon 3 year-olds" Really? Do you have a child in nursery? I do! My 3 year-old does a little bit of learning numbers. They have some rhymes they use to do a little bit of numbers with the children. They also learn the ABC-song. This is learning through play and not expectations nurseries put upon children. Its not like they are sitting 3 year-olds down at a table doing hours of maths. Just chill!

Staff do not spend a lot of time writing observations down about the children. You get a book with some notes on what your child has been doing/ learning/ funny thing your child has said/ favourite toys etc to tell you about their day. Is this what you call a "formal assessment? "

These are professionals who have qualifications in child development. Of course there is a structure to a good nursery. Its not just a place for your child to spend the hours you are at work. Of course it is also a place to learn. Does your child not learn at home? And Scandinavian nurseries are pretty hot on what they offer in terms of child development and structure too by the way. Its what parents expect. They don't confuse learning-and development plans for nurseries with sitting toddlers down to do maths and read shakespeare.

It is really interesting for me as an early years teacher to see parents ideas about what happens in nurseries. Thank you very enlightening.

parents ideas? do you mean we don't have a clue? what is it we don't know mrz? you keep being very vague.

fairymum you are reading things into my words that just aren't there. I am very grateful for the insight from a parents view as EYFS is new and my children are older.

Mrz, I don't know what is in your words. Like I say, you are being very vague.

Don't you think saying "parents ideas about what happens in nurseries" hints quite strongly that we don't really know what goes on when we are not there?

What is enlightening about mine and Blueshoes posts then?

My little boy went to full time nursery from 3 years old. He loved it and learnt a huge amount during his time there, mainly about getting along with peers in a play situation. This was a state nursery and l helped out on many occassions. I was really impressed with the staff's ability to plan and use play for learning. Surely an experienced member of a team should be able to observae and play!! My daughter however is now in a similar position to start and she is not the same character at all. Therefore we shall be looking for a childminder when l return to work with 2 hours at nursery. My point is that all children have different needs and it is up to the parents to judge that. That can change over time. I think mothers beat themselves up to much about making these decisions.

Bigpants and Violethall
I find your replies that 'I must be smoking something ' and that it is scary that I am working in a reception class ,very bizarre and OTT
If you read my post I said that almost without exception children with serious behavioral problems had spent long hours in nursery.
1 I made it clear I was talking about my own experience.I don't know how you can conclude that this is as a result of poor reasoning or drug related..

2 I did NOT say that all long-hours-nursery-children had behavioural problems , but that (nearly) all behavioural problems came from long-hour-nursery children.NOT THE SAME THING.

3 I said there was in my own experience a correlation IME a correlation - not causality.It could be that children with behavioural problems tend to be put in nursery for long hours because their parents find coping difficult

This thread is clearly touching a raw nerve with you both I think you should maybe just walk away !

With the greatest respect,Katiestar,I neither said you were smoking something, or that it is scary that you are working in reception class. If you read my posts, I was actually agreeing with you,(though dont think I mentioned you by name). I havent posted on this thread since last week, though have been following it.
I think you have me confused with someone else on this thread, and you hath slighted me unfairly.(miffed look).
I said my bit last week, and left it at that, but, i will do as you say, and walk. Look, here I go-Im walking-straiht to my freshly delivered take-away, from which I will hide/lurk behind, and watch this thread.
PPS, could you look again, to see who did say the above and correct your mistake. Or, will the true culprit step forward? Watch this space...

My 3 yo goes to pre-school and has been at nursery 2 days per week from 18mths. In nursery formal observations are made although not frequently. In pre-school my dd1 has a home book, brings a library book home once per week and has started to learn the alphabet song.
Perhaps its because I am a CM that I feel there is nothing that cannot be done at home. We sing, read, draw, colour in, do play doh, go out in groups with other CMs to socialise, do music and rhyme once per week, cook ,bake do jigsaws and games, messy play. However, on top of these activities we go to museums, parks, farms, shops etc where a full time nursery child wouldn't go during the week. This is not a slur on those needing/wanting to work as it is necessary to have children in childcare. I just feel that to put your child in nursery full time for no other reason than to have a rest its lazy. If you don't want to spend time with kids either don't have them or get a job!

lordy some big ole sterotypes and assumptions getting hurled around on this thread.

my lo goes to nursery FT and they go out scheduled minimum once per week.also regular external stuff too,it isn't baby boot camp all herded together never going out you know. i pay good money for my child to be ignored by staff and imbued with poor social/behavioural habits.gland to see all the money not wasted ,eh

one size does not fit all.parents should do whatever suits their individual needs

observed poor behaviour and nursery attendance have never been conclusively statistically proven.many cited studies have small sample size,disputed methodology or were not reproduced elsewhere

nature/nurture and all that too

frankly,i have no strong opinions on this.as it is such a personal issue driven by circumstances enc financial,social etc

am saddened the ease with which stereotypes and half truths are perpetrated as factual

would prefer to see people more galvanised about child poverty and malnutrition in UK children,than whether or not someone chose to use nursery or not

Havn't read the whole thread but generally if you asked my little boy he'd rather go to preschool 5 days a week 9-3.30pm than spend 2 days being dragged around with mum to shops etc.
Sorry to offend anyone but quite frankly I find most of DS 'play' boring - weirdly I'm not a 4 yr old and so I dont' want to spend an hour building a castle out of duplo bricks for the 20th time.

Liekwise DS isn't a 33 yr old and doesn't want to spend an hour shopping for clothes.

Why is this a bad thing? DS is his own person and if I could afford it I'd send him to preschool five days a week to do the stuff he enjoys in a fab place with other kids.
That still leaves 46 hrs a week for us to do stuff together - or isn't that enough?

I feel there is nothing that cannot be done at home. We sing, read, draw, colour in, do play doh, go out in groups with other CMs to socialise, do music and rhyme once per week, cook ,bake do jigsaws and games, messy play.

And at preschool DS can do all of those things with other children his own age - not possible here via toddler groups as ther'es only 3 and they are geared up for 0-3 yr olds and don't do activities as such just toys and chat for mums.

On top of those at preschool DS has a 20 ft sandpit, a water tub and permenant water splash area, a huge dressing up box, a play kitchen, a playden in the garden, a tire swing etc

However, on top of these activities we go to museums, costs money and lets be honest many museums are boring 'no touch' places for active 4 yr olds
parks and playgrounds and farms and shops close at 3.30 on weekdays and are NEVER open at weekends and there is something that is inherently better abotu visiting on a tuesday at 10am than a saturday at 2pm?

This is not a slur on those needing/wanting to work as it is necessary to have children in childcare. Oh good - I'm glad you aren't putting down the people who pay your wages

I just feel that to put your child in nursery full time for no other reason than to have a rest its lazy.
Why can't we want a rest? and I don't think anyone on this thread HAD said that was the only reason.
I'd like DS to have f/t childcare because:
I want to study for an MA
I am trying to renovate a house
He enjoys his preschool
He is an only (I can't have more) and I think he benefits from other kids
He can do things at preschool which I don't have the skills, money, space or time to offer him at home
I don't enjoy 4 yr old activities
I'd like to work p/t
He wears me out after a full day at home
I have a health condition which can mean its difficult to look after him properly
I want a REST!

halia I don't see why you are personally affronted by my post. At the end of the day you obviously aren't the person I referred to personally. I replied to the op, whose only reason to do F/T nursery is because she says she can't stimulate a 3yo enough! No mention of other stuff going on.

Had you posted the thread stating you wanted to renovate a house and do an MA I would have said fair enough.

However, I do have to question why you had children if you don't like them/playing with them. It is a fact that nurseries do not do anywhere near as many outings per week as a CM or parent at home.
I CM a child who is away from his parents from 8-6pm, his mother has stated that he is suffering due to this. She enjoys her job and has to work so it isn't negotiable.
I stand by the fact that to put a child in F/T daycare while you sit at home doing nothing is just lazy.

PS if someone needs rest due to a medical condition that is also fair enough, it is a need, not a convenience.
IMO if you don't want to be inconvenienced by a 3 or 4yo don't have children!

So, he's suffering by being with you?

Judgey judgey.

No its not judgey, it was his mum who said it! Not me! He is not suffering being with me, he enjoys it but he misses his mum and sees her for 1hr per day. He is at school btw.