To be upset that DD1 class be told all about Afghanistan when she's 5?

[MrsPurple]

I don't think I'm over reacting and am looking for reassurance. My DD1 (year 1), came home from school yesterday telling all about fighting and the war in Afghanistan.

I had many difficult questions off her.

It turns out a classmates uncle came in to talk to class about his job etc.

No letter was sent out re asking parents to come and talk about jobs and no letter that it was going to happen, because I would have wanted her excluded from this.

I know children need to know re some stuff but when she's older, at the moment it's my discretion.

The man told them all about fighting and war and guns.

I had a problem re a teaching game used a few weeks back called shoot out that the teacher used (I asked for help on here re that). The teacher ressured me they wouldn't use it again.

I now fell that my worries weren't listened to and want to email the Head, who I know quite well. AIBU?

i'm crb'ed too lol, for two counties through school and charity work, but never through armed services. clearly possible lol, but it would be coincidental rather than the norm.

nomoreamover - it's not just soldiers that are out in iraq and Afghanistan, the RAF and Navy and Marines are there as well.. I keep reminding people

i send 'em lol.

It depends on the job. RAF police for example, or RMP or the Navy equivalent are often CRB'd because of their job, some who help out at children's events or with cadets are as well

I think, but I could be wrong, that anyone who's DVed goes through a CRB. Other than that, it's those in certain jobs (as Saltire said).

dh wan't crb'ed when he was a soldier....

Ridiculous this nonsense of hiding your dhs from their own dc.

War is a subject which should or could be on a NEED TO KNOW basis. Some posters seem to perceive this as a forces-bashing thread. NO. This is how you seem to WANT to read it though. Yawn.

hmm...sachertorte...I suppose some may perceive it that way....and, no it is not about this...bt the message that soldier no...police/firefighter, etc....good....has sort of come acrosss....so...those jobs seem to be somehow better/more acceptable....apparently...

Its all getting a bit polarised.
RSB seems to talk to most sense.

Of course I don't advocate sitting children down to a litany of horrors and a powerpoint slide just because it is the Truth. I'm not that mad.

BUT, but, but... I got seriously told off at a toddler group last year for orgising a game of cops'n'robbers (this suggestion came from the 6 year old sister of one of the group members, they were aged 2-5). the children were running around squealing and having a good time chasing the 'baddies' when one mother took me to one side and said that her Precious One was as yet unaware that there was a distinction between 'good' and 'bad' people and she was very unhappy with this game.

She was a fool and I feel sorry for her children; how they will grow and develop and what they will learn?

There has to be a middle ground between traumatising children and between giving them access to information in a safe environment. I've read the whole thread now and remain even more firmly of the belief that the OP is being unreasonable.

I agree with all the posters who say YABU. There is absolutely nothing wrong in a soldier coming in to tell children about the job they do just as it is equally acceptable for a policeman, doctor or fireman to come in and yes even the woman who sells the newspapers on the street corner.All of these things are part of the real world and as long as it isn't over the top why shouldn't children learn about these things?
They get to learn about christianity and other religions and frankly I think some of the information imparted in those sort of lesons can seem even more traumatising for a child than learning that soldiers do sometimes get injured in wars.
With children having access to the internet and hearing horror stories from other children I think it's beter for them to learn the truth from those who can impart knowledge in a controlled supportive environment rather than payground rumours and shared internet links.

Not postered today as been at work, not as a soldier . I think alot of people have missed my point.

I have no problem with soldiers. I have no problem with any parent going into school talking about their job without glorifing certain aspects of war etc. I object to this happening when it is not part of current lesson plans, and without warning. It was not show and tell.

With children at age 5 it should be a drip drip process rather than a full on heroic glorification. A soldier would not give a balanced view re Muslins if he is trained top fight them.

A child's sensitivity should be considered by the school and this can not happen when it is unannouced and with a class of 30.

sachertorte I totally agree with you as my DD would worry of things - not because I'd sheltered her, but because that is her nature. (we are still trying to persuade her that mosquitos in this country do not give maleria, after red nose day. Even though I have explained to her how some mosies pass on maleria).

Jscot I think you have missed my point. It wasn't the current topic at school. I'm glad your DC is proud of their daddy for being a soldier, but as soldiers don't appear in everyday life where we live, I feel this was not appropriate timeing to do a talk regarding the Afghanistan scenario etc.

Shambolic totally agree, 5 year olds are not emotionally equipped to deal with certain things, which is why History of War is covered at Key Stage 2.

Wannabe you say some things children don't need to know in relation to abortionist. I agree, but what about the children of the abortionist? Every situation is different and it goes back to appropriate for situation and age.

Northernlurker How dare you criticise me for not being able to do my job properly and leaving it to the school. I have discussed the affect war can have on people when it cropped up on TV with relation to fundraisinbg programmes, but the version my DC appears to have been told was a bit glorified and talking about the role of 'baddies' is not educating my child. My DC's have seen soldiers pass by in a truck (with guns) and I answered their questions as it was appropriate at for the situation. They actually love going to see soldiers at Buck Palace.

FAir Lady It's not that I mind soldiers, it's just got no connection to current class lessons.

The difficult questions were to myself, DH and GP's.

I know I only have a 5 years viewpoint, but my DD is usally spot on with what has happened, and it also appears other class mates told the same tales to their parents.

I agree children need to know about the real world but a bit at a time. She's got her whole life ahead of her to discover about the really horrid stuff.

I suppose I should tell her that fairies don't exist next . Children grow up too quick, and why is that? because parents and schools are making them.

Rant over

Mrs Purple, if you read through my posts, you'll see that I don't say anywhere that the talk was probably relevant to the curriculum - I have no idea what your child is learning at school and, therefore, no ability to comment on the relevance or otherwise of the soldier's talk.

My original point (and I do not see this as a Forces-bashing thread) was that if it is appropriate for a fireman/policeman/paramedic/civl servant/lawyer etc to come in and talk to a class about their job, then it is appropriate for a soldier/sailor/airman.

I would agree with you if the talk went into gory detail about the rather nasty business of war but, assuming that the soldier had even half a brain, I doubt that was the case. I wasn't there, so I am only surmising that the talk was delivered in language that children would understand and I would expect that a teacher would intervene if the talk/questions/answers strayed into dodgy territory.

"A soldier would not give a balanced view re Muslins if he is trained top fight them."

What an inflammatory statement! A soldier is not trained to kill Muslims, any more than he is trained to kill any particular nationality, creed or colour. A soldier is trained to fight against the enemy - whatsoever shape that enemy may take - and also to defend, protect and rebuild. Religion does not come into it except that the current threat against the UK comes from Islamist extremists preaching a perverted form of an otherwise worthwhile religion.

The Forces have no agenda against Muslims and it is ridiculous and naive to suggest otherwise.

I have to say i totally disagree with the comment that a soldier wouldn't give a balanced view of muslims if he is trained to fight them.

A soldier is trained to fight..period.A soldier is trained to fight and can be deployed to fight a known enemy combatant force but to my knowledge no soldier is trained to fight muslims rather they are trained to fight in a war and are currently engaged in a war against a mainly guerilla force which consists of muslims rather than fighting a war against muslims and it is not particularly fair to suggest that british soldiers are anti muslim just because they are fighting a war against an enemy force that consists of muslims..the track record of the britsh army in iraq and afghanistan is one mainly of fighting the war against the insurgency which consists of combatants who are muslim and helping the majority of non combatants in these countries who are also muslim and i think any british soldier currently serving in either of these fields of operation would feel insulted at the suggestion that they were unable to make a distinction between a law abiding and peace loving member of the general popualtion and a terrorist

Sorry the comment re Muslims was meant be shown as an example re a balanced vikew, it was not meant to indicate that all soldiers are trained to fight muslims.

My point, which I made vewry badly was that children do need to know some things but with respect to war a soldiers view maybe a biased view.

Apologies to anyone I offended with Muslin comment

by the way tere is no thing such as an abortionit,,,,they are nurses/doctors....with plenty other experience...wHAT i HAVE THOUGHT THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD WAS...WAS THAT SQUADDY YOUNGISH....BECAUSE, MY DH WOULD HAVE SIDLINED WAR TALK BUT TALKED ABOUT UN... ooops sorry....caps....I did not man to shout

Honestly don't know how old, but going from age of the mother of child whose uncle it was, if around same age probaly late 30's?

Jscot You didn't mention curriclum relevance, and neither did I. I mentioned current topic because you said 'isn't it usual for parents to go in and talk about jobs etc', It is usual when this is the topic but our class haven't got to this yet.

I do think children should know a little bit about what's going on in the world.

A school friend of mine was killed in Iraq last year leaving behind two little children, he sadly won't be one of the Soldiers giving a talk to his 5yr old Son's class!

Will say no more, upsets me far too much.

Mrs Purple - I see what you were getting at regarding the relevance to the curriculum, even if I don't share your POV.

Scotish Thistle - I feel for you. I'm not criticising the soldiers who granted do a great service for their country. And it is sad he has left 2 children behind.

I'm annoyed at the school for taking my parental rights away regarding these issues and not considering my childs sensitivty and capabilty to deal with this emotionally.

It wasn't part of current topics (i.e parents going in to talk about jobs), so I don't see how the talk even came about or the relevance to the current programme of events).

The other issue was how it was glorified, and discussed how the 'baddies would come her in planes and boats'.

I'm not trying to upset anyone as I get upset just watching soccer am's photos of the troops abroad, especially when they play the winds of change by the scorpions. It's upsetting people get killed and children don't have their mummies or daddies. It's just a subject I don't think my 5 year should be subjected to at this young age.

If my DH was in the forces then yes it would be part of normnal family life and DD would be more aware etc. But I want to chose the time when to discuss this with her (when I feel she is ready). I don't want the school taking the mater out of my hands.

Sorry I don't mean to sound like ranting . I just think people have misunderstood why I'm upset.

jcscot - thanks. We are all entitled to our pov (which is what MN is all about). I understand it's a subject you feel close to as you DH is in the forces, which yes would mean you would have to discuss some things (maybe earlier than I'd like) with your DC's.

It's all about situation and age relevance. it's just I've been forced into this without being considered. Sorry that should read my DD has been forced to discover this without consideration for how she may react or even digest the details.

I doubt very much whether the Soldier in question would have gone into any major details of war with a class of 5yr olds.

I've been in classrooms when Policemen (for instance) have spoken to children about their occupation. They give them the basics.

In my experience children who are sheltered from the real world are the children who worry/struggle to deal with reality. Children talk about such things in the playground, surely it's better coming from an adult?

MrsPurple - I would be upset/angry as well. She is very young and does not need to worry about this - it's not something that should trouble young minds. Some children who have parents/family/friends fighting in the war will be in a different situation and in that situation it is up to the parents what/how much they tell them as it should be up to you.

We shelter children from many things (war/abuse/rape/murder/terminal illness) until they need to know... IMO this is not and should not be, the 'real world' for them at 5.

There are plenty of other things they could be being taught.

I don't wish to cause offence to anyone in the forces or with partners in the forces - but tbh that was your/their choice and mine would be for my 5 year old not to be taught about Afghanistan.

I agree with ChippingIn.

Cbeebies has fireman, policeman characters
but not soldiers, and I agree with them for it.

lol mrspurple - some of our soldiers are muslims - perhaps you weren't aware of that?

• and i utterly utterly find the concept that all soldiers are unable to have a balanced view of an entire religion because apparently they are trained to point and shoot at the lot of them extremely objectionable. if that really is the fear of yr 1 parents who have no day to day experience of forces personnel, then i think it is even more reasonable to invite a more into schools - it is education after all.

ordinary men and women, mummies and daddies, sons, daughters, that happen to be soldiers/ sailors/ airmen for a living. they are not just the robotic killing machines that you are alarmed might frighten your dd.

i'd love to know what school this was and what was actually said - i'm sure the teacher present would be able to give a far less emotive viewpoint on what was actually discussed. 'teaching them about afghanistan' - i'd put money on the fact it came up as an example of places he has been/ will go, rather than a lesson on the political situation and how barbarous the situation is. they weren't being 'taught' about afghanistan fgs.

i really see no difference between police visits and forces visits in this context tbh.

mrsp - i'd love for you to speak to the teacher and explain your concerns - and then to let us know what her account of the visit was. if she says 'oh, yes he taught the children all about how the taliban shoot and kill and evil warlords, and drugs, and how we charge in and save the day and blow them all up because they are evil muslims' i'll take back everything i said and admit you were not bu.

Key Stage 1 PSHE Citizenship - People Who Help Us - this is where police/ ambulance etc visits fit into the curriculum. not as part of parent visits.