to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

[GooseyLoosey]

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

sassy, pmsl - can't win! If I'm passionate I'm accused of 'jumping up and down' or I'm a hypocrite. Ridiculous.

MegBusset is absolutely right - our rights are not respected in this country. And as for calling me narrow minded and selfish - yer, of course, that's me .

You feel sorry for my children because I want to 'indoctrinate' them? I never said anything about indoctrinating my children - I said I would answer their questions honestly. And I certainly didn't say I would tell them not to listen to the teachers - I'm a teacher myself so why on earth would I say that?!

If the worst thing I do to my children is teach them to think for themselves rather than unquestioningly follow a religion then I'll be more than happy with my parenting.

well I used the fairy tale analogy as that's what I've frequently seen bible stories being referred to as by non-Christians on MN and in RL.......

Not at all. You are not obliged to convert to Christianity. It is not "wrong" to teach your child atheism. That's absurd and obviously not what I am saying at all.

I'm saying he needs to participate fully in the life of the school. And if the school ethos upsets you this much (bearing in mind he is only 5 and you are obviously coming across these issues for the first time) you should think about making alternative arrangements. Not because you are not welcome at the school, but because the ethos of the school is contrary to what you want for your child.

He is 5 - ?
Oh come on now, not really old enough to make valid decisions about this sort of stuff
He finds it boring, but it will also help to build his self confidence - and he can start to make an informed decision about god and the Christian faith

ruddynorah - the content of the reading requires ds to affirm various other aspects of Christianity and praise God. It is therefore more than just reading something out (to me) anyway.

I am very aware of not wanting ds to feel left out and have never requested that he not attend assemblies etc. as a result. It is also because of this that I have not already told the school that he cannot do it, but am giving the matter considerable thought.

the dcs' school is totally non-denominational, but they still learn about all religions and sing a few associated hymns/songs.

All the children participate, whatever their religion, with the exception of the few Plymouth Brethren children - who seem to sit out quite a lot of things actually (but that's another matter!).

Calling anyone's belief "silly" is not terribly good form in modern society.

YANBU if you really feel that strongly about it, and if it won't upset your DC. Personally, as an atheist who sends their child to a religious school (for reasons that having nothing to do with SATs results, but are more cultural) I generally don't have a problem with the DCs participating in the religious side of things. They know our views, we don't 'mock' or undermine the school, they just know that on this thing we don't have the same beliefs.
As an aside, I see nothing wrong with Dcs knowing that parents and teachers don't necessarily agree. Teachers are human too, they make mistakes (as do parents) I would not want them to have blind faith in what they say just because they're the ones who have said it.

YANBU

we had something similar with cubs, where you have to pledge allegiance to God, Queen et. Hm. Being anti-monarchy agnostic household...Ds has decided to say it to be "polite", but on the understanding that god might or might not be true.

I think also people are missing the point that all schools are based on a religious principle, and it is obligatory for schools to gather for a religious observance. Assembly is just that. In ds' school the roll call of inclusion takes a while but everyone gets to reflect or thank their god, or something woolly if they have other beliefs.

FAQ, we all know cinderella was a story, wheras christianity is presented as the TRUTH.

I do think there are plenty of other opportunities for public speaking practice though, and the teacher is being a bit of twit for choosing him for this one.

My nose is up SLebMn' bum here. I might think everyone who believes in God is barking mad, but thats a whole other thread.

There is nothing disrespectful about sending you child to your local school. The shame is that religion is in state schools at all, so forcing parents to have these issues where they don't really belong. But that's the system, so give the OP some respect here for having a genuine struggle of conscience.

To back up FAQ I frequently see God referred to as an imaginary friend, or religious stories as fairy tales on MN. I don't believe that, but if you don't believe in God I don't see the harm or offence to you in treating religion in the same way you would treat Cinderella. Ditto churches - I believe they are sacred places, but surely if you're an atheist they're just old, pretty buildings?

I hope the school will understand that he doesn't want to do it and respect your wishes on the subject, Goosey.

I have an 11 year old ds who is questioning the exsistense of God and I'm finding it very difficult to give him answers, even though I'm a practising catholic.

oh - I see the "sill" comments are directed at me - just saying what I believe to be many opinions of my beliefs from non-Christians. (I've heard worse )

Gooseyloosey - I don't think that anyone is saying that it's 'wrong' to teach your child athesim. I think it's the hypocrisy which comes from sending your child to a religious school that has surprised/annoyed/irritated.

And convesely , if you think that it is ok to teach a child atheism, why is it NOT ok for a child to learn about religion ? And not just christianity ? My kids for example, believe in God - they celebrate Christmas, Easter, participate in services at school and church. They also know that other people choose not to believe in God, and that yet others choose to believe in 'different' types of God.

The issue that I have with atheism is that it is a belief system which appears to invalidate and dismiss any other belief.

Sorry Sleb, put a para break in there which sort of changes my cringing sycophancy re respect to possibly suggesting you have atheistic views...didn't mean that.

'Peachy - actually, the school have not asked my permission. There was just a little note in his bag saying he was doing it and could I do through it with him.' that's not so positive, our school is C of W, they know we are also (DS4 was Baptised at a service where the school did a presentation) yet we still get a letter asking us if we wish to participate.

As an aside, I am Christian now but when the boys went to this school I wasn't. When a school is both religious and patrt of the community it should (IMO) realise that there will be a mix of beliefs and that as a Governemnt funded institution it needs to deal with that. Tolerance and acceptance after all are key Christian messages.

I understand people saying go to anotherschool donttakea contested place etc but wonder if they come from places where C of E schools are oversubscribed; in many villages etc the C ofE school is the standard local Primary, and as such to go elsewherewe'd have needed permission from the LEA to apply for an out of catchment school, pluspaya CM tododrop offs toa distant school.

I do not think that he will be damaged by participating in this service - I agree that that would be daft. However, I also do not agree with the view that just going with the flow and tolerating religious participation does no harm in the long term. I have seen many people who have been deeply damaged by a religious education and I genuinely believe that the world would be a better place without organised religion (although I do not wish to debate this on this thread). Therefore, at what point should I draw the line?

it is possible to participate fully in the life of the school and community without doing a church reading

DS has never done one

he certainly does not feel any less of a member of the school or community

are the OPs beliefs as an atheist less important than mine as a Jewish person, or those of a Muslim or Hindu parent?

not all children not participate fully in every aspect of school life for various reasons:

for instance, DS is dysexic, so he goes out of various lessons with all his classmates , and goes into smaller , seperate classes. so you can argue he is not particpating fully , but it does not harm him

a child with SN or LD might not participate in all classes , or might be unable to take part fully in PE

it is taking regard for the differences in all our children , far better than the insistnece that you cannot compromise on anything within a school

Surely surely If you are worried about the long term effects you would move him to another school
If you are in a village then there will not be one far away

I'm glad to hear it - I'm most definitely a Christian - and the church organist

Sassybeast - I am genuinely surprised that you think I am hypocritical. I have never professed to being a christian, I have not signed the bits of paper agreeing to support the religious ethos of the school and (I think) the school are aware of my lack of belief. I have never professed to be something I am not.

I do not dismiss other people's beliefs and I hope I do not encourage the dcs to do so. However, this is a long way from actually getting ds to actively participate in a religious service and make affirmative statements about God.

No her views aren't less important, but I'm just trying to make the point that she seems to have drifted into this situation without thinking about how she is going to respond when religious worship/participation like this crops up.

In a village C/E school it is going to crop up a lot. Our vicar teaches RE in our local C/E primary. I bet the OP wouldn't like that at all, and fair enough.

If you consider Christian instruction harmful to your DS you should expressly withdraw him from it.

Its just a bit unthought out, the whole 'you made your bed lie on it" argument.

We should be like France, where all schools (apart from designated faith schools) are wholly separated from any form of religion. OP is trying to make the best of a silly system. Like most of us are in one way or another. To tell her to move her kids is just daft.

You might well end up feeling just as annoyed if you got a new head that was a fervent evangelical christian of the slightly more barking variety who pursued a protestant agenda you disagreed with (think fondly of middle school head who was Methody preacher man...)

But he wil be doing that all the time in school GL

Beetroot - I know. Somehow as part of a group activity it seems less personal than getting him up there on his own to do stuff. I do not want to stop him participating fully in the life of the school so would never stop him from doing what all of his friends are doing but I am not too keen on him doing anything that they are not.

Peachy - I totally agree with your last post.

"so would never stop him from doing what all of his friends are doing but I am not too keen on him doing anything that they are not."

so is he the only one doing a reading???