Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

934 replies

GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 08:45

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

OP posts:
Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 10:26

Georgimama, the vicar is in our school everyday and you're right, I'm not particularly keen on it. However, I accept that the school teaches religion from a Christian perspective. That is still quite different from getting ds to declare on his own in Church that God exists and died for our sins.

OP posts:
georgimama · 30/03/2009 10:26

My argument is the very opposite of "you made your bed you lie in it".

I'm saying "you don't like your bed, get a different one, but don't complain that it's less convenient than the bed you don't like."

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 10:26

FAQ - there are 2 from his class doing something.

OP posts:
salome64 · 30/03/2009 10:27

Sassy, "atheism invalidates belief", well that is kind of the point. of it. Not to believe in a higher being or beings, whether benign, indifferent or fire and brimstone, or angels fluffing around on sparkly clouds...

100yearsofsolitude · 30/03/2009 10:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

giantkatestacks · 30/03/2009 10:29

Am a bit if mine was picked out in reception to do reading I would be so pleased - likewise if he was joseph and not a fecking sheep again - cant wait for that thread come christmas btw...

georgimama · 30/03/2009 10:29

This thread moves too fast!

Don't let him do the reading then. Simple. To be fair you will have to tell the school that DS is not to do things like this in the future. It may be possible to swap readings so he isn't doing a Christian one.

salome64 · 30/03/2009 10:31

Georgimama, if her local school in her village where the state says she should send her children is CoE, that is the fault of the system, not the OP. Telling her to completely overturn her childrens lives just because she has concerns about this one aspect of the school is just breathtakingly arrogant and intolerant.

Any surprise atheism is popular, when you see so called christians being so rigid and intolerant.

I don't suppose if your local school were non-denominational you would have a problem with sending you kids there.

ruddynorah · 30/03/2009 10:33

i understand that however it is still only words, to you. so it doesn't matter. if you want him to have any respect for other people's religions you ought to go through the reading with him and help him understand what christians mean by it. if you can't, ask him to ask his teacher to. you explain he is partaking in a service and part of that is that he has been given a very important role of doing this reading.

spongebrainbigpants · 30/03/2009 10:33

"The issue that I have with atheism is that it is a belief system which appears to invalidate and dismiss any other belief."

Yes, atheists don't believe in any religion but I will teach my children that other people do. No different from, for example, a Jew believing in Judaism but acknowledging that Christians or Muslims or Hindus believe something different.

I always struggle to understand why it is atheists that are seen as intolerant when religion is, by it's very nature, intolerant of other religions.

I have no problem with religious education and learning about all the religions of the world - but I do think atheism should be part of that curriculum too.

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 10:34

Gosh - before I started this thread, I thought that I would probably not be viewed as unreasonable if I just had a quiet word with his teacher and either asked for a reading with different content or said I would prefer ds did not do it.

Now I worry that I will be viewed as an unreasonable and intolerant ramapant atheist who is not prepared to support the school in anything.

OP posts:
FAQinglovely · 30/03/2009 10:35

"It may be possible to swap readings so he isn't doing a Christian one."

to be fair georgimama - it may not be possible either, in our CoE schools (seperate infant and juniors) I've not been to any of the school performances/services where the readings weren't actually Christian - actually I lie think the YR2 leavers concert had a couple of bits that weren't..........

georgimama · 30/03/2009 10:37

I'm not being rigid and intolerant. If the OP doesn't like the ethos of the school she should make other choices! What is intolerant about that? What's the alternative - get rid of the ethos of the school because the OP doesn't like it? Very flexible, very tolerant.

Not that my plans for my children have any relevance, but I intend to privately educate my children because there is plenty about state education I don't like. I practice what I preach, see.

spongebrainbigpants · 30/03/2009 10:37

GL, not at all! Christians are tolerant people remember!

Seriously though, there will be lots of other children in the same boat (anyone who thinks that all children at a faith school belong to/observe that faith is being v naive!) and your teacher should take it in her/his stride and understand your views.

As another poster mentioned, all schools have some kind of Christian worship and we have had this before at the school I taught in - all dealt with very discreetly and no fuss made. I would be very if you were treated any differently.

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 10:38

ruddynorah - a good point. However one of the bits of Christianity that I have always found very hard to grasp is why and how the death of Christ was in anyway redemptive - I simply do not understand it and have never heard an explanation that I felt was coherent. Explaining it to ds will therefore be challenging!

OP posts:
spongebrainbigpants · 30/03/2009 10:39

georgie, do you honestly believe that private education is an option for everyone?

It is staggeringly expensive to privately educate - good for you that you can afford it but ludicrous to judge others because they can't!

Plus, many private schools are even more religiously indoctrinated than state schools so it wouldn't help the OP anyway.

salome64 · 30/03/2009 10:40

I think our kids are really lucky to have access to so many amazing views of the world. Maybe they will grow up and make the world a better place because of it. Rather than being belligerant and narrow-minded about being "in the right". Might save us all a few wars.

giantkatestacks · 30/03/2009 10:42

I think if you've decided that it would be better if another child did it then go in and say something and am sure they will be fine with it - make sure that you spell out that its just this they you have a problem with though and not class activities - religious based craft and all the rest of it.

georgimama · 30/03/2009 10:43

I have no idea what the OP's circumstances are and I'm not judgiong anyone.

I was asked what I would do if I didn't like the ethos of the local school, and I have stated what I am going to do because I don't like it.

If I couldn't afford to privately educate, I'd have to put up with it, wouldn't I, like the OP will have to.

I did say to the OP that she needs to discuss this with the school if she feels so strongly, but that's gotten lost of course.

ruddynorah · 30/03/2009 10:44

googled christ died save us and this was the first hit. just a starting point but has lots of opinion to dig into if you so wish..loads of info out there should you want to find it

ruddynorah · 30/03/2009 10:45

i could go on

Fennel · 30/03/2009 10:48

YANBU. but you have a couple of choices. Take your dc out of religious worship (you are allowed to do this), or let them do it and just mutter away at home.

Our school is similar though officially a non-religious community primary, the dc do take part in services at the local church. I'm not wild about it (OK it really annoys me) but my dc are quite keen (they want to be both churchgoers and atheists, depending on which adult they are trying to please), so they do it, including active participation. If they didn't want to I'd take them out though, definitely.

Sassybeast · 30/03/2009 10:50

Spongebrain '
'Yes, atheists don't believe in any religion but I will teach my children that other people do. No different from, for example, a Jew believing in Judaism but acknowledging that Christians or Muslims or Hindus believe something different.'

See - we're the same really Seriously though - I think this is the first time I've ever heard or seen an aethesist acknowledge that other people 'do' believe in something and by teaching them that, you also teach them respect for those others and their beliefs.

GooseyLoosey - I think the difficulty that you have is that you have NOT made your views clear to the school, otherwise I would doubt (I hope) that they would have chosen him to do the reading - unless they really are a really freaky cultish school who are determined to convert him

SlebMner · 30/03/2009 10:51

it is not a big deal to say to the school you would not like your DS to do the church reading

it really isn't

slug · 30/03/2009 10:56

OK MargoBeaureguarde, you've floored me with this comment "I can't believe that parents teach their young children that "God doesn't exist"."

You don't need to teach children that God dosen't exist. That is their natural starting point. They don't come into this world with anything but a natural curiosity about how the world works, they certainly aren't born with a knowledge of God/Allah/Flying Spagetti Monster. If you didn't teach them about a God, they wouldn't believe in one.

Indoctrination starts at a very early age. Some of us have no choice where we send our children to school. the OP is emphatically not being unreasonable to object to the indoctrination of her child by the state into a belief system that is not theirs.