to tell DS1 that he either eats his dinner cold or not at all????

[FAQinglovely]

He was actually given it nearly 1/2hr ago. He was silly about the fact that DS2 sat on "his" seat, so I asked him to go and sit on the bottom step. He refused, and what followed is barely repeatable, suffice to say, he tried to throw his booster cushion (for the car) at me, and is now banned from a multitude of "special" (to him) things for 2 months (started off a month, but after some deliberate repeated door slamming and a warning I'd add time on before he did it I added the extra month).

Anyhow, he's now calmed down enough to eat his dinner (beans on toast) and naturally after 1/2h its stone cold.

If he'd have done as he was told to start with his food would still have been hot -but his behaviour tonight was the worst I've ever seen it so it's ended up a much longer period of time before he's gone back to it.

He's 8.5 btw - so AIBU to tell him that he can eat it cold or not at all??

that's ok SilentBob - it's just so frustrating sitting here seeing what I know are fabulous suggestions (as I use many of them with DS2 and they work a treat - he's a "text book" 5yr old ) knowing that I've tried them with DS1 over the years to no effect.

Singers - yes the first thing he got was a chart for his drinking, it didn't really work, despite all the bribes and encouragements under the sun.

I stood and watched him drink a glsss of water this morning.........for 10 minutes (and then smart arse little DS2 decided to get a glass of water and down it in 30 seconds )

He's always gone to bed at 8pm until last year when his early waking was starting to get ridiculous again (frequently up between 2-4am. putting it 8.45 did at least improve it to betwen 3-5am, DS2 (5) and DS3 (22 month) go to bed at 8pm

Oh yes - we had Ferber - in fact it was Ferber's technique we used to get him to sleep on his own as a baby - was our life saver in that regards (he didn't sleep for more than an hour at a time up until he was 6 months, unless he was being pushed in the pram or being held, but he wouldn't sleep in a sling, even co-sleeping with him didn't help!).

Foolishly gave it away after we had DS2 (who slept through on his own at 3 weeks old), only for DS3 to come along and be a pretty diabolical sleeper when little (he's vastly improved now at 22 months )

About the lying- mine went throught a phase of doing that. In the end I found part of the problem was I was asking too many questions, and though I didn't intend it, a lot of them were of the kind where they'd be nervous about giving me the truth (have you done X?). It helped when I eased off on the questions (you can always look in the wash to see if he's put his things in), or at least didn't seem to be too interested in the answers. And I also found when I stopped making too much of a fuss about the lying, they became more truthful.

I think a lot of the time I just took them by surprise, they'd answer 'yes, I have" without thinking, because they were startled, but when I then made a big thing about truthfulness, they had to persevere in lying. With hindsight, I would have offered more escape routes.

I have also found that my own 8yo little boy is unbearably slow at eating and drinking, and indeed at anything. He could easily take twenty minutes over drinking a glass of water even when he is thirsty. His teacher says, yes he is very slow but he is by no means the only one. Takes him well over half an hour to get dressed in the morning. And then his trousers are back-to-front.

I go on Mumsnet to spare my nerves.

It is such an awkward age.

oh he's not slow at eating at home - actually while actual meal times are generally drama free I do find myself telling both of them to "slow down" with their eating LOL.

I explain I don't like being the only one left eating and because they have more on their plate than I do they should (in theory) finish after me

Getting dressed he's also rather speedy (probably something to do with manic mornings trying to get out to school on time when the normal morning cries of "will you hurry up and get dressed we're already 10 minutes late" are heard )

Unfortunately some kids just don't sleep a lot. I read somewhere that these children are very often brighter than most. If he would sleep longer by putting him to bed earlier, then I would suggest doing that. He will probably still get up at stupid o'clock but at least might be better rested.

Is there any way to make staying in his room feel more attractive? I saw in one of your earlier posts that he does choir and violin- does he really like music? Could you manage a really cheap mp3 player or radio that he could listen to whilst still in bed?

Re the lunch at school. Have you spoken to the school? My ds1 has never eaten much/well at all and went through a phase of not eating at school. The school got the teacher on lunch duty to check on him regularly- sometimes even sitting down with him while he ate- and making sure he had at least some of his lunch.

I wouldn't worry too much about where you sleep either- I used to have appalling sleep difficulties, due to anxiety/stress and was told by my doc that until I was able to sort out my anxieties etc I should grab the sleep where and when I could. I used to sleep propped up on the sofa, wrapped in the duvet, with the TV on.

Incidentally, I don't think your punishments are too harsh. I don't think it matters why he behaved as he did- he didn't do as you told him and he must understand that there are consequences and that what you say goes.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck! He sounds like a clever kid and I'm sure things will improve (eventually ).

you see the lying bugs me for 2 reasons

1. DS2 lies (I know all children do to some extent - I remember lying to my parents ), but is improving on confessing the truth when I tell him. DS1 has always lied and hasn't "grown out" of it at all.

1. DS1's school behaviour policy is very simply (and effective) there are 3 rules ( andd I can't remember 2 of them off hand ) but one of them is to always tell the truth.

yes - it is progress, poop - I did make a big deal of him going back upstairs, tried not to push the "well you really should have gone back to bed rather than mucking around up there" .

I might see if I can get hold a of cheap radio (with headphones ) at the weekend - when I'm childfree

Maybe the 'threat' of having him watched by a superviser might be enough to make him eat something?

it might do - it's that horrible fine line with this age between getting them to do what they know they need to do (ie eat food to stay healthy and help keep him happy) and humiliating them.

Hi,

I have an 8 yr old night waker.
I found that she was waking in the night and was then scared of the dark/monsters/nightmare etc so was putting the light on to read/play DS etc which left her horribly tired and grotty.
She was also waking v early as well.

I bought her a nightlight from GLTC which is one of those that doesn't need batteries or a plug, just charges itself from the light. That sorted out the nighttime reading etc as it is just bright enough to give comfort but not so bright that it will keep you awake if you see what i mean.

With the early rising i found that her bedroom window faced the rising sun so she was waking up naturally as the sun rose. I've got her a blackout blind from Tesco now and that has sorted the early rising out. She's much more settled and happy now. No more panda eyes!
Argos do black out blinds as well, they are on offer at the moment.

I changed her night time routine as well. She has a cd player which is on a shelf she can't reach and i put on a short audio book when i switch her lights out. I always read a little to her each night anyway and the audio book soothes her without winding her up if you see what i mean.

ahhh conflicting advice

Idrank - he's got a dim light in his room - from when he developed a fear of the dark at about 3yrs old, and his room is west facing. We did have a black out blind for him (2 houses ago) but as it didn't have any effect (he'd still get up when it was pitch black outside LOL) and it didn't fit his new bedroom window when we moved we.........ermm I can't remember what we did with it but it didn't move with us.

I'm loath to try and change his bed time routine too much - apart from moving it to 8.45 (on most nights) it's been the same for nearly 8yrs now. After DS2 and 3 are in bed we generally do a few minutes violin practice (only time we've found that "works" without DS3 "helping"), and some speed writing practice (the latter lasts exactly 30 seconds) and then he usually veggies out on the sofa and reads to himself..........I'm rarely "allowed "to read to him these days instead just get interuppted from what I@m doing every 5 minutes to tell me something that's happened/been said in the book.

If it's bath night that happens between 7 and 7.30 (slick routine of DS2 and 3 in, DS3 gets out and runs round naked giggling while DS1 jumps in, DS3 is dried and has nappy put on and DS2 gets out, leaving DS1 to finish off his bath in peace on his own). then it's story on the sofa for DS2 and 3 (with me reading sometimes, sometimes DS2 wants DS1 to read to him), milk for DS3 and then bed for the younger to (at bang on 8pm ),

Then we swing into DS1's "routine". (oh and when he's in a good mood he goes and puts the kettle on for me straight after his brothers are in bed as he knows I need my coffee LOL - see he's not always awful

actually computer was still on as I forgot to put the screensaver back into action - has been switched back on this morning in case I'm on the sofa tonight.........although I'm having a good feeling about tonight, been a couple of nights in a row of not being able to sleep - which usually means I end up in bed

Good point about a radio or music being something extra added back in, I suppose really we need to stick with what we've got but keep him in his bed rather than prancing around upstairs LOL.

Actually, if he's waking up and not going back to sleep because he does not need to, then maybe a CD would be useful as a distraction that is not the computer. DD has a CD player with headphones and story CDs. Waterstones do a whole Dr Who series that are dispensed as treats when she's been especially good.

slug - problem is I think he does need to - on the rare occasions that he sleeps for longer (5/6ish) his behaviour in the day is so much better.

Hypnosis? Acupuncture? Drugs and a sledgehammer?

PMSL @ Drugs and sledgehammer

If you heard him moving around why did you not go and see what he was doing?

You also have to remember the recent house move on/off relationship with exH is also going to affect his behaviour.

I didn't go and see what he was up to

a) because again it took me ages to get to sleep last night - had I got up at 4am to see what he was doing I would have woken up properly and not been able to sleep again

b) because I didn't want to risk a disagreement with him at that time in the morning with DS2 and 3 still fast asleep.

The behaviour has been an issue long before our marriage hit the rocks, just as he's got older his "repertoire" of behaviours has grown.

And I wouldn't really describe my relationship with DH as "on off" - we split up (once), we've started dating again (once), I guess we may see on/off relationships in a different way from each other, but I view an on/off relationship as one that is repeatedly on and off, not just the once .

I have just averted a tantrum, he hadn't eaten his lunch. Tried to get arsey with me about the fact that DS2 and 3 got a couple of sweets but that I won't let him have some, I've (successfully) managed to ignore him and he's now sat reading a book trying to pretend he's still in a bad mood about it.

Message withdrawn

no the waking up isn't the bad behaviour, it's what he does when he wakes up early that's the problem. There have been occasions when he's woken up and gone back to bed and when he does that he's always fallen back to sleep eventually.

and he told me last week that he still felt tired when he got up (after waking up early and getting out of bed)

I suppose the food one isn't a major issue as long as he eats a big dinner, but problem is that even though they all have a snack (usually a healthy one) around 4ish when we get home it's not enough to keep him going until dinner time, so we often get nonsense in between 4ish and dinner.

They already cost me a fortune to feed (which is why I had to humble myself and get the free schoo meals for them as it was too much to get stuff for their lunches too ) and short of giving him 2 dinners (one at 4pm one at 6pm LOL) I'm not sure what else I can afford to do.

I also hate the fact that he comes home from school - and like today - throw away a perfectly good lunch (well it was perfect until he's left a hardly touched carton of drink in there which leaks over everything ). It seems like a waste of money, ok it's not my money, but why have a paid for lunch that he's not going to eat?

The drinking, well there's a water fountain (well a couple I think) at the school and they're all encouraged to have a water bottle with them and fill it up and sip on it regularly through the day. I've spoken to the school about it and their response was basically "well now they're in Juniors we expect them to take responsibility for drinking themselves so don't like to push it" (actually I'm f*cked off with the school about something else right now so I'd better not talk too much about the school LOL).

He's been ok so far this afternoon (despite not eating his lunch) - but it's still early...but fingers crossed we'lll finish the day as we are now (although hopefully a little tidier )

FAQinglovely can I suggest you get someone to help you with the drinking, dd has to drink, I have now made it a health issue at her school, so now they have to make her drink(ok bit different as she has cp) but I am sure it can be done in ms.

FAQ - he's got in a really bad habit with the sleeping and waking thing hasn't he. Particularly if he has acknoweldged that he is still tired when he gets up. Its going to be trying to find what it is that will help him to break that cycle, stay in bed and, in time, hopefully go back to sleep until a more appropriate time.

Its interesting about the comments people have made about having music on being a potential distraction. When I was at Uni, in hall, I found that I had to have music on as it helped to mask some of the other noises (most of the time that were happening - but it couldn't be something that I was really interested in listening to. For me, the best music was Bach's orchestral suites. I normally coped with just one side - occasionally I had to get up and turn the tape over though (there, that dates it!). I was recently singing in a concert (choir) were the orchestral piece in th middle was one of these - and, sure enough, I went to sleep (no one noticed though! ).

Ds is 4 next month. He goes to bed with no light in his room, the door ajar and another bedroom light on - so very little light. He has a story and song, then I put his radio on quietly (radio 3, or if its too much talking, classic fm ) - it can be set to go off automatically after a set time. It is also his radio (very occasionally he has been known to rest the alarm for some awful hour of the morning (2amish) and turn the volume up and I have had to go in, turn it off and then try to get back to sleep - he's slept through the whole thing). Anyway, the point I was getting to was, that you might find something like this would help your ds - and it might be something that he could put on if he woke up, but stayed in bed listening to. I would imagine that if its the same music each time, the familiarity would help and he might eventually learn to go back to sleep listening to it????