To expect our parents to BUTT OUT??!!

[LavenderStar]

DP is Jewish but I am not. It has never been a problem, he was brought up in the faith but it isn't a big part of his life now, although he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. His parents are more religious, don't mix meat and milk, go to synagogue etc. but don't have any problem with the way he chooses to live his life now or with me.

Anyway I am 25 weeks and if we have a boy we decided to have him circumcised. It was never a big discussion between us, I actually prefer it (I think it looks nicer and somehow it seems more hygenic) and DP I think wants to do it more as a traditional thing than anything else and obviously every other man in his family has had it done. I think his parents might go so far as to get upset if we didn't although I don't know. But frankly it is nothing to do with his parents.

Anyway so my mother phones up today even though she knows we are going on holiday tomorrow and have a million and one things to do at home and at work, and I told my dad I would speak to her when I got back. Obviously though what she wanted to do was more important and she told me that she was phoning as something had been "bothering" her. She thinks circumcision is "an unecessary procedure" (to put a baby/child under anesthetic) and potentially dangerous (eg they could cut too much off). I actually don't know much about it but we would have it done in a hospital and I am sure it would be fine in this day and age. I am not sure what it has got to do with her anyway.

My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?

Also now I just think it will cause a problem between the families whatever we decide to do and everyone has always got on really well. I don't know why parents think they have the right to shove their opinions down our throat, it makes me really angry. DP's mother is already slightly neurotic and we already have to "manage" her, so I could really do without this, I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!

Or is it just my hormones?

No, you have a duty to your child to protect. you can't say I respect admire and look up to my husband who is a wise man and will always be right. You are tlaking about changing sexuality for your child for life, a procedure he may well reject. Your husband chose to marry out. His child will never be jewish. You are mutiliting the baby without its consent and affecting tis sex life for life. You have a moral duty to look into it for yourself without biased views from Jews or muslims. It was prescribed in their religions simply because you could get infections because of sand in the desert. You don't live in the desert.

In the UK most children are not done. In the US they are.

Many men try to have it undone later and want a foreskin. Go and research how sex feels with and without it and then prohibit your husband from proceeding. If he wanted it done he shoudl have married a nice Jewish girl who would be obedient and tow the party line.

My original view was YANBU, but she is entitled to her concerns especially as the ones re the unneccesary anaesthetic. I think if your partner was a practicing jew (is there such a thing - sorry, catholic here) and it was really important to him then yes, im sure i would have it done too. But it can't be that important to stick to tradition as he has married out of the faith.

Is circumcision done under a general, can't it be done under a local?? Later on, when he understands?

I think you need to be both really sure this is what you want - if you are sure, then it is absolutely your decision but i do think you should take time out to explain things to your mum and reassure her about risks etc.

Xenia the tone of your posts are taking your extreme feminism to the borders of anti semetism!!

My old boss was circumcised - i managed through my blushes to ask him about sex, he said it was fine, i asked him about masturbation and he said that so long as his wife or him i suppose [cringe] was gentle it was pleasurable - i tend to concentrate on the helmet anyway when i'm sorting DP out, who is not circumcised.

YABU I don't blame your parents.
I am totally against male or female circ unless for medical reasons. Should be outlawed as soon as. Please don't do it if you have a boy

Your thread title is "to expect or parents to BUTT OUT??!'
What part of that is dignified or constructive? I think you set the tone from the start.
AIBU is a topic that is always going to have strong veiws from either side. Perhaps you should post in Childrens Health.
I think it is reassuring that there are so many people on this thread that are giving you advice with actual knowledge and experience behind them and are looking out for the interests of a strangers child.

ps There is always brit shalom.

Apart from Xenia, thanks to everyone for the more recent posts which are thought-provoking, educational, and understand the issues I was trying to raise.

Xenia I am embarassed for you that you just posted that.

By the way (again as a surgeon) I have done this operation on older children (teenagers for medical reasons) and adult men and i totally fail to see how it could safely be done on a baby with at the very least strong sedation and probably a general anaesthetic - how on earth would you get him to stay still to do it under local anaesthetic? Unless you tied him down to the operating table which I am pretty confident would not be accepted on the NHS.

Not something to make you decide yes / no but just in answer to some comments / questions about anaesthetic

i think you look at this website.

its for/about men undergoing foreskin restoration who were circumcised before they were able to make that descision for themselves.

if you have a son please consider waiting until he is old enough to make the descision for himself.

Nellie - yes, sorry, perhaps it wasn't the most sensible title but I was angry. I did try to make a bit of a joke out of my post and asked whether it was my hormones at the end though!

I think people can have strong views but learn to express them in a polite manner. As I have just said, this includes me.

lavender, do jews have to be circumcised at birth then? I always assumed it was done at about 14? Sorry for the complete ignorace? I do see however that of course you couldn't expect a baby to keep still. Do we have any Jews here who could help with this decision?

Alicet - thanks. My comment about the doctors in our family meant that they had done it to their children (babies, in fact). I don't know exactly how/where. The mother of the consultant isn't Jewish.

As I have admitted, I do need to look into the whys and wherefores if we do decide to go ahead. Alicet I appreciate your input, your views are certainly ones I will take seriously.

jewish boys are circumcised at 8 days old

i don't ever post on these threads because of the contentious nature of it

thanks ruby

Glad to be of help and good luck in making your own informed decision

LavenderStar I think you need to find out how, and by whom it would be done.

I don't not believe that when it is done by a Rabbi it is done under anaesthetic (from memory of what my DH told me about his friends son's circumcision). Sorry a bit woolly

How can someone be an extreme feminist? WHy is being a feminist seen to be a wrong thing?? How is this not barbaric??

Def would not have it done by a rabbi ...

OP - have you considered finding out if you are having a boy or a girl now? You may not need to be going through all the family discussion and research etc at this point - one less stressful thing on your plate.

lavendar - lots of Mohels (Jewish ritual circumcisers) are GPs or Consultants

some are not

you need to check this - you can get a list from the Beth Din

if you are not having it done as a religious ceremony then you can have it done at a local hospital

jewish circumcisions are usually done at home

LavenderStar Extremely worried by my own ignorance, so just had a look on Religion Facts website. Sorry, I don't know how to do links (der..)

LavenderStar - this is an interesting article which may provide some less traditional options for circumcision

click here

Can I just add that the reason I think you need to do the research yourself and not accept your dh / dh's family's advice is that firstly they are bound to be biased by their religious beliefs and also if it is all your dh knows he may be agreeing without really knowing the pros and cons either. Hope this doesn't sound patromising but if it is all he has ever known and has had it done himself with no problems and none of the men in his family have had problems then he might just seen it as a very minor thing to do with no possible negatives.

It IS a minor procedure and the likelihood is that your son would have no problems. I accept that sex is less sensitive after a circumcision but he will never know the difference. On the other side even minor low risk operations have serious (but rare) side effects - ones that would be justified for a procedure that is needed for medical reasons but not in my opinion for something to be done from choice like this.

I accept though that as i am not jewish I am also biased - in favour of not getting it done - so you need to get lots of opinions from all sources and do the research yourself. then you can make an informed decision and if that is to have your son circumcised then that is your informed decision

'My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?'

I think you already answered this question in this sentence, your parents have always supported you, your asking why they are suddenly interfering? i think you know the answer to that, and it sounds like concern not interference to me.

Concern that you are going do something that both you and your ds might one day regret, concern that this is something you have quite obviously, not thought through properly, they are not interfering they are concerned

' I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!'

I think this is a very immature comment to make for someone who is telling other posters to keep this thread dignified and constructive