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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect our parents to BUTT OUT??!!

397 replies

LavenderStar · 25/03/2009 11:44

DP is Jewish but I am not. It has never been a problem, he was brought up in the faith but it isn't a big part of his life now, although he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. His parents are more religious, don't mix meat and milk, go to synagogue etc. but don't have any problem with the way he chooses to live his life now or with me.

Anyway I am 25 weeks and if we have a boy we decided to have him circumcised. It was never a big discussion between us, I actually prefer it (I think it looks nicer and somehow it seems more hygenic) and DP I think wants to do it more as a traditional thing than anything else and obviously every other man in his family has had it done. I think his parents might go so far as to get upset if we didn't although I don't know. But frankly it is nothing to do with his parents.

Anyway so my mother phones up today even though she knows we are going on holiday tomorrow and have a million and one things to do at home and at work, and I told my dad I would speak to her when I got back. Obviously though what she wanted to do was more important and she told me that she was phoning as something had been "bothering" her. She thinks circumcision is "an unecessary procedure" (to put a baby/child under anesthetic) and potentially dangerous (eg they could cut too much off). I actually don't know much about it but we would have it done in a hospital and I am sure it would be fine in this day and age. I am not sure what it has got to do with her anyway.

My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?

Also now I just think it will cause a problem between the families whatever we decide to do and everyone has always got on really well. I don't know why parents think they have the right to shove their opinions down our throat, it makes me really angry. DP's mother is already slightly neurotic and we already have to "manage" her, so I could really do without this, I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!

Or is it just my hormones?

OP posts:
MrsMattie · 25/03/2009 15:56

Fighting a losing battle@MillyR.

You'll never stop the entire Muslim/Jewish world, most of Northern America and God only knows how many other people from carrying out a practice that they see as essential and, well, normal.

There are far more worthy causes.

But each to their own.

AnyFucker · 25/03/2009 15:58

I find it interesting that it is now illegal to dock the tails of certain breeds of dog....

But mutilating a human baby is OK

MillyR · 25/03/2009 15:58

I was more thinking in this country, rather than the whole world! But I appreciate the calmness of your reply Mrs Mattie.

Thunderduck · 25/03/2009 15:59

Because there are far more worthy causes doesn't mean this isn't worth discussing and that it shouldn't be?

Thunderduck · 25/03/2009 16:00

Actually circumcision rates in many of the 50 states have dropped, due in part to the internet no doubt, and that drs can no longer keep it all behind closed doors now.

We can find out for ourselves and make an informed decision due to the wealth of knowledge out there now.

pooka · 25/03/2009 16:01

Sorrento - give that boy a star! Excellent joke. Wonder when his parents found out. Would be funny if was while idly googleearthing.

screamingabdab · 25/03/2009 16:02

I wonder if the OP will change her mind once the baby is born and she winces at him having the heel blood test?

MrsMattie · 25/03/2009 16:03

I think you are missing a huge point, though.

The vast majority of men who are circumcised do not feel they have been mutilated. They do not remember being circumcised. They grow up into perfectly normal people who - for religious or cultural reasons, or perhaps just for reasons of hygiene - are perfectly happy being circumcised men. Everyone is happy.

I am a woman. I am not Jewish or Muslim., My husband and son are not circumcised. I come at this purely from an objective angle.

I just can't see what the fuss is about.

Thunderduck · 25/03/2009 16:05

I wouldn't even say that I'm 100% anti circ, but I am very much in favour of informed decisions and that if it is done, it is done for the right reasons, and there are very few of those.

I'm considering converting to Judaism, and have the greated respect for it.This will be an issue for me to consider, though I believe I already know my answer.

It is also traditional in my dp's family, and has been for some generations, for the male children to be circumcised. It isn't a big issue for my dp, so he and I are inevitably going to have a few heated conversations about this when we start a family.

Bumpsadaisie · 25/03/2009 16:06

It does make a big difference sexually - with circumcised men the head/glans of the penis is exposed so the skin becomes dry, hoary and insensitive - whereas for a non-circumcised man, the gliding of the foreskin back and forward over the tender moist head/glans underneath it is one of the main sources of sexual pleasure. Just as the head of our clitoris is moist and soft because covered by a little hood - imagine what your clitoris would feel like if the covering had been chopped off and it had rubbed against your knickers all your life. It would become dry and insensitive.

My DH doesn't like me touching the head of his penis when I touch him because it feels calloused, dry and unpleasant - totally different to uncircumcised men I have experienced who would happily have me spend hours there!

My DH was "done" just because it was standard procedure in the hospital where he was born, and he says he has always wondered what it would have been like to have a "whole" penis.

I'm expecting a girl, but if we were having a boy there is no way I would do this to my son, unless for medical reasons.

AMumInScotland · 25/03/2009 16:07

OP - you may find it harsh, but those of us who have held our tiny newborn baby in our arms find it hard to imagine why anyone would have someone take a knife to them for anything less than utterly compelling reasons, which you do not appear to have in this case.

For those who have utterly compelling cultural or religious reasons for doing this, I'm sorry if the tone of this thread has been harsh - you no doubt have the best interests of your child in mind.

For those who just think it might be "nice" or "hygenic", sorry but that's no way a good enough reason to do this to a baby, and I don't know how anyone could countenance it for such shallow reasons.

Thunderduck · 25/03/2009 16:07

My dp is pretty happy with being circumcised I will admit, but he knows no different. He's never lived with a foreskin, he was circumcised immediately after birth according to his mother.

It's the norm to him, it doesn't mean that it couldn't be better, that a foreskin might not have benefits for him. People should be given the choice, and if it is carried out on a baby then that choice has been taken from him.

bluebump · 25/03/2009 16:11

I'm sorry you've found people to be rude and aggressive to you LavenderStar but a search for other conversations about circumcision on here would show you most of them do end up like this as it is a subject people feel passionate about. However, I think you've been given plenty of good information from people so I hope at least it was useful. My 2p's worth, I'm Jewish and I never once considered having my son circumcised but plenty of my family have chosen to.

solidgoldbrass · 25/03/2009 16:22

I have certainly encountered plenty of circumcized adult men who are not, actually, that bothered about it (DS dad was circumcized as a young-ish child because he had a too-tight foreskin, it doesn;t seem to have stopped him enjoying sex). (NO point in making miserable the parents of those whose little boys did have phimosis, for instance). However, the point is, if you want to cut bits off your newborn baby for no good medical reason, you're a bad person. You're stupid and cruel. And whatever moronic myth system tells you it's OK to do so is stupid and cruel as well.

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 16:25

Can someone tell me why jews circumcise? What is the reason for it? My thoughts are - if God created us in his image, why would be want to be messing with da merchandise?? (trying to keep it lighthearted and not offend) just curious

Thunderduck · 25/03/2009 16:27

God commanded Abraham to circumcise himself and all males in his household as a sign of the new covenant between God and his people.

MrsMattie · 25/03/2009 16:27

That's a really harsh and aggressive thing to say@solidgoldbrass.

You're saying all Jews and Muslims are bad people? Umm...OK, then

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 16:29

I think the reason this discussion has got so heated is because we all feel somebody needs to speak up on behalf of the little as yet unborn baby who has no control over what happens to him once he is born. And that can only be a good thing.

Lavender needs to think less about her own wishes and needs and much more about her child's. He is a person in his own right, NOT a piece of property that she owns and can do to him as she wishes.

MrsMattie · 25/03/2009 16:33

No need to be offensive.

Mumcentreplus · 25/03/2009 16:38

well...my DH was semi circumcised for years and didn't even realise...one day while washing when he was in his teens he pulled his fore-skin back and it never returned to it's original position...he says it was brilliant ..lol..he does not feel like he has half a penis because it's a piece of skin on the end of his penis...he does not complain about sensitivity...actually he says he's more sensitive and he certainly does not have callouses!!!..what the heck has your partner been doing to get those I think some body lotion is in order there and some lube wouldn't go a miss either!

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 16:58

oh ok thunder it all makes sense now!!! lol seriously though, its just because someone said earlier it was a hygeine thing due to living in the desert, i was . So it has religious symbolism - fair nuff.

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 17:04

MrsM, are you talking to me? Why do you consider my post to be offensive?

I agree with solidgold. Every word.

That baby is not just a baby, he is a PERSON. He has rights, like the right not to be mutilated for no reason. Do you think a grown man could be forced to have a circumcision? No. Well why should a baby boy be forced to have one just because he cannot speak up for himself? It is exploitation of a defenceless child and the only reason for doing it is because it has been done to others. That is not a good enough reason.

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 25/03/2009 17:10

Mumcentreplus that's a whole different matter, he still has foreskin.

Mumcentreplus · 25/03/2009 17:11

well about the hygiene ..it's all about how well a man washes his penis..otherwise it's smegma city under there!

zipzap · 25/03/2009 17:13

There was a study done in the US years ago looking at newborns and crying in hospital (sorry, it's been a long time since I did my degree so can't remember the reference).

The gist of it was that boys cried significantly more than girls and there were all sorts of theories put forward as to why this was, ultimately thinking it was a biological/evolutionary thing.

They then tried to replicate it over here in the UK (back in the day when new mums and newborns routinely stayed in hospital a week or two... told you it was quite an old study ). But they could not - found that over in the UK, both boy and girl babies cried the same amount. Which really puzzled them as it scotched the biological hypothesis.

Then somebody realised that in the US it is standard practice to circumcise whereas it is not in the UK.

When they re-evaluated the data, separating out the circumcised vs non-circumcised boys, they found that the circumcised boys cried much more over the first few weeks than either the girls or the non-circumcised boys...

so guess what I am saying is, if you do go ahead and get the circumcision done, be aware that the pain for the baby will need managing for weeks rather than just immediately post-op. May well be that these days they manage it better and for longer, but just in case.