To expect our parents to BUTT OUT??!!

[LavenderStar]

DP is Jewish but I am not. It has never been a problem, he was brought up in the faith but it isn't a big part of his life now, although he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. His parents are more religious, don't mix meat and milk, go to synagogue etc. but don't have any problem with the way he chooses to live his life now or with me.

Anyway I am 25 weeks and if we have a boy we decided to have him circumcised. It was never a big discussion between us, I actually prefer it (I think it looks nicer and somehow it seems more hygenic) and DP I think wants to do it more as a traditional thing than anything else and obviously every other man in his family has had it done. I think his parents might go so far as to get upset if we didn't although I don't know. But frankly it is nothing to do with his parents.

Anyway so my mother phones up today even though she knows we are going on holiday tomorrow and have a million and one things to do at home and at work, and I told my dad I would speak to her when I got back. Obviously though what she wanted to do was more important and she told me that she was phoning as something had been "bothering" her. She thinks circumcision is "an unecessary procedure" (to put a baby/child under anesthetic) and potentially dangerous (eg they could cut too much off). I actually don't know much about it but we would have it done in a hospital and I am sure it would be fine in this day and age. I am not sure what it has got to do with her anyway.

My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?

Also now I just think it will cause a problem between the families whatever we decide to do and everyone has always got on really well. I don't know why parents think they have the right to shove their opinions down our throat, it makes me really angry. DP's mother is already slightly neurotic and we already have to "manage" her, so I could really do without this, I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!

Or is it just my hormones?

sayithowitis - you have managed to articulate excatly how I feel on this subject.

A friend of mine had her sons circumsised "so that they would look like their Dad". I had to bite my lip so hard.
I think that this is one of those subjects where future generations will look back and wonder WTF we were thinking.

justaboutback, just because a one off incident like mc is not ongoing does not mean that that one incident does not amount to child abuse.

It is a physical violation of a child's body with no reason or justifation. Like i have already said our children are not our possessions, they are not objects off which we can cut bits off if we think they don't need them.

They are people in their own right and have a right to keep intact the body they were born with. You don't need to have a penis to imagine the pain of cutting off a bit of it without anasthaetic would feel like surely? Imagine having a bit of, say, your earlobe cut off? How would that feel?

It is a barbaric, exploitative ritual and it most certainly is child abuse.

How does calling mc abuse devalue the significance of the term child abuse?

Child abuse takes many many forms; just because something is extremely common practise and has been done to loads of children does not make it unabusive.

Does the fact that millions of children have already endured this pain make it ok for the OP's child to suffer in the same way? NO NO NO.

I am stunned that you seem unable to think for yourself. You just blindly follow the crowd and do something that causes pain and suffering just because it has been done for centuries.

It is 2009, right?

justaboutjack

"But if I did, and there were strong religious reasons, then yes. I would. No question"

"I have never made the argument that circumcision is a good idea nor that anything is good because it is traditional"

Are you unable to see how you are contradicting yourself?

Doing something purely for strong religous reasons as you have said that you would is blindly following the crowd and not thinking for yourself.

So, if you're religious it's automatic that you don't think about your actions?

I would strongly disagree with that. Some of the most intellectual and questioning people I know are religious, constantly debating the doctrine of their faith.

You didn't think about your decision to circumsise your son did you?

" didn't even question DS's circumcision."

You have proved my point.

Clearly you are not one of those supposedly intellectual religous people that you speak of? They don't really exist do they?

"I didn't even question DS's circumcision. We just did it with a mohel when he was 8 days old. "

I repeat, ww the above quote is from your post today 12.34.42

Ah, oneplusone, I think you need to refrain a bit before you get really rude. Are you itching to call me a child abuser for having my son circumcised?

I didn't say I was one of those intellectual, questioning people, did I?

I was merely saying you were making a sweeping statement about religious people as a whole.

Having a phd doesn't mean you are able to think for yourself.

WW has proven she doesn't think for herself and simply follows her religious crowd, as she has freely admitted in her post at 12.34 from which i have quoted.

"DH and most of his friends aren't observant at all really but they would all get their sons circumcised without thinking"

Some more intellectuals who are able to think for themselves?

They're not religious, oneplusone. You were making sweeping statements about religious people.

FWIW, do you really think your aggressive, hostile tack is going to change attitudes and behaviours? Because I can assure you, it's not.

To change behaviour, you need to start to understand why people do what they do.

So, why are these not particularly religious Jewish people still keen on circumcising their sons?

Because they're all child abusers? I don't think so.

Perhaps it's far more complicated than that.

If you want to see circumcision rates reduced, then I suggest instead of ranting and attacking, you do some intellectual investigation.