To expect our parents to BUTT OUT??!!

[LavenderStar]

DP is Jewish but I am not. It has never been a problem, he was brought up in the faith but it isn't a big part of his life now, although he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. His parents are more religious, don't mix meat and milk, go to synagogue etc. but don't have any problem with the way he chooses to live his life now or with me.

Anyway I am 25 weeks and if we have a boy we decided to have him circumcised. It was never a big discussion between us, I actually prefer it (I think it looks nicer and somehow it seems more hygenic) and DP I think wants to do it more as a traditional thing than anything else and obviously every other man in his family has had it done. I think his parents might go so far as to get upset if we didn't although I don't know. But frankly it is nothing to do with his parents.

Anyway so my mother phones up today even though she knows we are going on holiday tomorrow and have a million and one things to do at home and at work, and I told my dad I would speak to her when I got back. Obviously though what she wanted to do was more important and she told me that she was phoning as something had been "bothering" her. She thinks circumcision is "an unecessary procedure" (to put a baby/child under anesthetic) and potentially dangerous (eg they could cut too much off). I actually don't know much about it but we would have it done in a hospital and I am sure it would be fine in this day and age. I am not sure what it has got to do with her anyway.

My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?

Also now I just think it will cause a problem between the families whatever we decide to do and everyone has always got on really well. I don't know why parents think they have the right to shove their opinions down our throat, it makes me really angry. DP's mother is already slightly neurotic and we already have to "manage" her, so I could really do without this, I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!

Or is it just my hormones?

I'd read it,Circinfo,but take it with a large pinch of salt, perhaps more like a cellar or two.

I think it's slightly different with anti racism, I think it's pretty clear cut, at least to me, that racism is a bad thing but I do get your point.

MillyR, is that what happens -- circumcision is pushed as an alternative disease-control measure to condoms for reasons of religiously motivated concerns about sexual 'morality'?

That is shameful.

There are also a lot of sites out there, that claim to be a home for legitimate discussion of the issue, but which are run by circ fetishists.

Well, I do think a lot of the claims made on Circinfo are unsubstantiated.

There are lots of research references but not to the bigger claims that are made like the breast cancer link.

And it doesn't deal with the issue that the child's choice can never be invoked.

I don't know. DH is Jewish. He loves his children and would never harm them. But he is very pro circumcision. DS is circumcised.

So, I'm a child abuser?

No you're certainly not a child abuser imho, but I can't say I agree with your decision, though I understand why it was made. Well I think I do.

Is he pro circumcision because his faith or because he believes in the supposed health benefits?

Because of sorry.

This thread has really really made me think.

DH is Jewish. I converted FWIW. We're not religious really beyond High Holy Days.

I didn't even question DS's circumcision. We just did it with a mohel when he was 8 days old.

He didn't cry or anything. He was asleep and didn't wake up.

But he didn't have a choice, did he? That to me is the key. Not the pain because he didn't seem to have any even when cleaning and taking care of his penis afters. It healed very quickly.

Threadworm, I would in no way claim to be an expert on the issue, but it is very well known that the US funded AIDS work in Africa (which have huge amounts of funding) would not pay for any schemes that involved promotion of condoms; this was a result of pressure from the religious right in the US.

I mean, DS did wake up eventually! It didn't kill him!

And that's the thing - DH and most of his friends aren't observant at all really but they would all get their sons circumcised without thinking.

Not to make you feel bad, but babies often do go to sleep when undergoing a painful procedure, they are overwhelmed by it and go into shock. It's quite common.

It's the not thinking that concerns me, not about you specifically but people in general. That we're questioning it now is a good thing imho even if one comes to the same conclusion in the end.

He was asleep to begin with. He'd been asleep for around half an hour before.

I probably will have to consider this myself, as I'm considering converting to Judaism.

Are you Conservative,Reform or Liberal Jews if I may ask?

gosh only just seen this.

Haven't had chance to read all the post - 307 of them wow! but have to say....

please don't do it.

It is an unnecessary procedure.

How would you have felt if your parents decided to circumsise you as a baby?!! There are horrific stories in the press about female circumcision - boys just don't get the same publicity.

Surely the choice MUST remain HIS. If he decides in the future that he wants to follow his father's faith or he feels it is medically appropriate to do so, then let your son make the decision for himself - it is his body, his life and in my opinion no parent should make such a fundamental and unrevokable decision for a child.

messymissy, i absolutely agree. It is about choice. Unless there is a medical reason why a child needs to undergo circumcision there is no justification for doing it. Even if both parents are jewish they shouldn't assume their child will want to be/remain jewish when he is an adult and can make his own choices.

Thunderduck, Reform.

I don't think you can compare female circumcision to male.

My understanding is that female circumcision is designed to reduce sexual pleasure and therefore induce control over women.

That's definitely not the aim with male circumcision.

IT's origins in terms of massive popularity in the US rather stemmed from the desire to limit sexual pleasure. Sure I read somewhere that was Kellog who advocated widespread circumcision to prevent masturbation.

I know that for jewish and moslem worshippers the roots are in another place, but in terms of the cultural american practice, I believe it has to do with the misperception that the natural penis is grubby, that it is cleaner and neater to be cut. Which is insane IMO.

And as others have said, there are different types of female circumcision, some which involve "only" the removal of the clitoral hood rather than the entire clitoris, which in practical physical terms is not dissimilar to the removal of the male foreskin.

Precisely Pooka. And the reasons for doing it are very similiar to the justifications for male circumcision.
I saw a site once that had a list that illustrated this very well.

"IT's origins in terms of massive popularity in the US rather stemmed from the desire to limit sexual pleasure. Sure I read somewhere that was Kellog who advocated widespread circumcision to prevent masturbation."

Please, are there links to read on this?

Here's one example of that list I mentioned.

www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/mgmfgm.html

Here's some information Winky.

www.historyofcircumcision.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=0

Well, Justabout, i guess the acid test would be whether you would be prepared to undergo this procedure yourself without anaesthetic and without any medical need? If your honest answer is yes, you might have apoint. I suspect however,your answer would be a resounding no. IMO, any operation which is carried out on an unanaesthatised infant, is tantamount to child abuse. Just because it is not ongoing is beside the point. I suspect that if such a procedure were carried out on an animal, in the same way, the RSPCA would be very quick indeed to prosecute for causing unneccessary pain and suffering!