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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think Delia is a bit of a tosser for saying' I am not a feminist - I like men'

374 replies

bigmouthstrikesagain · 23/03/2009 10:25

Stick to the cooking theres a dear

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 24/03/2009 16:05

Economic expectations are not the fault of feminism (except indirectly I suppose). I'm not sure what kind of society you'd have to see for all lone parents to be able to stay at home with their children for as long as they wish, or even all parents in a relationship. But it would have to be a much richer and more generous one.

Mumcentreplus · 24/03/2009 16:06

lol..so soon we forget...did they burn their bras in vain?

OrmIrian · 24/03/2009 16:08

I find it quite ironic that modern women are put off from being seen as 'feminist' because of an outdated image that was unattractive and supposedly hostile to men . Very very sad.

slug · 24/03/2009 16:11

the Fawcett Society for all those budding Millie Tants out there.

wasabipeanut · 24/03/2009 16:11

Yes Ormirian it is.

slug · 24/03/2009 16:32

Grendle, I don't understand. Are you not a feminist because you think it is a generational thing?

I guess that now there's equal pay, no sexual harassment in the workforce and rape has been sorted it's OK to retire from the struggle

Mumcentreplus · 24/03/2009 16:44

No Farah Fawcett hair?...

GLaDOS · 24/03/2009 17:19

How is rape supposed to be 'sorted out'? Feminism isn't doing anything about that for a start. Like I said before, look on rape crisis UK. It's an ideological notice board not a support site.

dittany · 24/03/2009 17:20

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madwomanintheattic · 24/03/2009 18:01

oo. i'm going to join. you get a free 'this is what a feminist looks like' t-shirt

bigmouthstrikesagain · 24/03/2009 18:41

Sacher I was giving my impression of/ opinion on how the interview went and how Delia came across - and it was honestly the impression I had been left with just after I had listened to her on Womans hour.

No intention to mislead - she had made me angry and I was unimpressed with Jane Garvey's acceptance of what Delia had said ... so I stick to my original statement Delia is a bit of a Tosser - and she writes very good cook books which I still use and will continue to use.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 24/03/2009 18:46

OK, Dear Delia ANd any other woman who says she's 'Not a feminist'.
What are you doing out of the house without a male chaperone? You can't have a bank account, or a car, or a job. You can't vote.You can't have any access to contraception, but you can't expect a man to take responsibility for any children you might concieve. You can't say no to a man who wants to fuck you: if he's married you then he's entitled to fuck every orifice in your body whenever he feels so inclined, if he's not married to you but feels like fucking you anyway then if you're not married to anyone else then he can fuck you, if you are married to someone else then he can still fuck you but it's you that's the cheating slut and your husband is entitled to beat you up and even kill you, because the man wouldn't have fucked you if you hadn't tempted him by having a vagina.
Get back in the kitchen and get on with your role and duty as a mute service appliance.

Grendle · 24/03/2009 18:51

No slug, I've just noticed that women in their late 30s/40s seem to have a somewhat different attitide to/perception of these issues than women my age and a few years younger. Perhaps it's right, and we feel differently because we didn't 'fight the fight' and live the struggle or whatever and take the gains for granted. I'm not saying that the things you keep quoting at me are bad or indeed unwanted. I'm saying they're not what I associate with the term feminism. Tbh, I don't feel I ever was part of the struggle. Maybe that's wrong, but I was actually 26 before I encountered even the slightest suggestion of sexism. I have always known I am 100% equal to any man and can do anything I want to. It never entered my head that I wasn't. As far as my experiences were concerned that battle was done and dusted. Of course, I accept that it's not the case/been the case for everyone. Just that I don't identify it as my personal battle. People banging on about sisterhood just don't sound like people I know and am friends with.

Before I get accused of being narrow-minded and solely focussed on my own experiences, of course I care about rape, discrimination or many other issues you could name. They're just not what I've grown up with as examples of 'feminism'. It's about what the term means to me, not the concepts you identify with it.

The first time I encountered someone who was introduced as a feminist it was at a 6th form prize-giving. It was a high-flying divorced city business woman who raved on and on about getting good childcare while you were pregnant to be sure you could get back to the grindstone whilst your new sproglet was cared for by someone else. It totally turned me off her and everything she stood for. Of course she's not the only example, there are figures on TV etc etc. The whole idea of female promiscuity (or sexual liberation, if you like) also doesn't sit any better with my beliefs than the same behaviour in men.

I've just asked dh to define 'feminist' and he said to him it conjures up an image of Germain Greer, some of whose views seem a little odd (e.g. she's defended FGM). He then added, or someone who fights for women's rights in a less than fair or sensible way. He is also a well-educated generally normal sensitive middle-class man of a similar age to me who takes more than an average interest in childcare and cleaning.

Mostly I just see women as people, nothing more nothing less. I certainly don't see the whole set-up of society as male-dominated or out to get us or anything.

I also agree that Delia's comment about hating men is a little odd .

Grendle · 24/03/2009 18:54

A really helpful and well-thought through contribution solidgoldbrass, that is doing tonnes to dispel my perceptions of 'feminists', er honest...

MillyR · 24/03/2009 18:56

You don't have to be a woman to be a feminist.

sprogger · 24/03/2009 18:59

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madwomanintheattic · 24/03/2009 19:01

can i ask what your area of work is/ was grendle? i'm fascinated that you have been so lucky.

solidgoldbrass · 24/03/2009 19:02

To be a feminist is simply to believe that women are human beings with the same rights to vote, earn and own their own money, choose where they will go and who they will associate with, wear what they like, say what they like and have sex how and with who they like, and be no more subject to restrictions on where they can go and what they can do than men are (ie neither men nor women are allowed to trespass on private property, steal money, drive without a driving licence etc and that's fair enough: that women used not to be allowed to take out mortgages or credit agreement without the permission of a man (husband, father or brother) was not).

Grendle · 24/03/2009 19:03

I was a Whitehall Civil Servant. the examples I finally encountered were all pregnancy-related.

Surely you should be delighted? Unless you conclude I've led some sort of ridiculously sheltered life, which I would dispute...

dittany · 24/03/2009 19:07

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Grendle · 24/03/2009 19:08

Thanks for the definition solidgoldbrass. I think my issue is, that I just see these as the ordinary beliefs of any sane and normal human being, not a special cause that needs a daft name. The things you describe seem like things that were achieved in this country a long time ago.

By the way, I am finding this really interesting, even if others do think I'm a moron .

madwomanintheattic · 24/03/2009 19:11

what grade?

madwomanintheattic · 24/03/2009 19:12

and having worked in whitehall myself... i was definitely in the minority lol.

dittany · 24/03/2009 19:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Grendle · 24/03/2009 19:17

dittany, to answer your question, I guess because in general I saw no obstacle to my or any other able woman becoming a Permanent Secretary should we want to. I met and worked with top-ranking female Civil Servants. The male ones I encountered hardly appeared mysoginist either.

To me, men at the top seems to be more a reflection of the choices and interests of women. I jumped off the ladder, because spending time with my young family is far far more important to me. It seems to me that many women make the same choice. Arguing that we shouldn't have to choose is rubbish, because we can't do everything simultaneously. This is not to say women can't work fulltime or be effective part-time if they choose to. Indeed between my 2 children I was headhunted and worked in a fantastically challenging and interesting job 3 days a week. I performed highly and was recognised for it. The thing was that personally, I felt constantly pulled in 2 directions. I fully intend to continue my successful career at a later date (indeed I do actually work freelance occasionally now, on my terms).

As I said, the sexism I encountered was maternity-related. Had I chosen not to have children, it wouldn't have come into it. [and that is NOt to say that is was acceptable, it wasn't]. I suppose someone will now argue that if this didn't exist, I wouldn't have left and neither would the others...

Madwomen: grade 7.