to think Delia is a bit of a tosser for saying' I am not a feminist - I like men'

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

Stick to the cooking theres a dear

absolutely banshee like!!! And i scream ALOT!

sachertorte - thank you very much for quoting what she actually said. I think that makes quite a difference. It may not be a very coherent "reason" but it is a sight better than the reason being attributed to her in this post, i.e. "I like men"

I like Delia!

I would certainly count myself a feminist but I can also understand her point about how she has never felt it a problem. I count myself very lucky but I would also say I have never found my gender an inssue in my chosen career. Certainly never felt held back because I was a woman.

...

it's in Dublin this year..

Should we suggest to Mumsnet Towers that Delia would be a good booking for the next web chat?

I've always liked the line "I'm a feminist because I have opinions that differentiate me from a doormat"

slug, that would be just perfect

but has she got a book out?

but the whole 'I've never felt there was a problem' thing is extremely odd. And annoying.

I have to be honest. I'm an intelligent adult woman, but I wouldn't class myself as a feminist. For me the word conjures up images of women in the 1970s who want to have lots of free sex and are choosing to work fulltime whilst having chidren. Nothing necessarily wrong with those choices, but it makes me really angry, that the way the world has changed means that all women, even those with small children, now seem to be expected to work otherwise they are somehow lesser. It also makes me really angry that many women have no choice in the opposite direction. In the 20th century lots of women were forced to stay at home and raise children, now if we want to afford a decent house in big swathes of the country, many households need 2 salaries, so we've gone from one situation of constrained choice to another. I do also worry about the impact of expanding daycare on very young children. More than anything else, having children has taught me that men and women are completely different biologically and may be equal, but at least in the early years of their offspring's lives their roles ARE different.

I know these are not popular views! Not all women are the same and if Delia doesn't want to consider herself a feminist then that's up to her.

But Grendle,

Do you vote?
Do you own your own property?
Can you open a bank account in your own name without needing your husband's signature?
Don't you agree with being paid the same as a man for doing the same work?
Did you work after getting married?
Do you have any rights over your own children?
Do you expect the law to prosecute sexual assult/domestic violence/rape?

All these things are what feminists believe in and fought for. Saying "I'm not a feminist" while benefiting from the feminist struggle and believing in the feminist agenda is abdicating responsibility. These things affect you.

Thanks for that Satcher.

Interviewer: "Would you call yourself a femeinist?"

Delia: "No. because.. I don´t know whether I´m outside it, but I´ve never really felt that there´s any problem, I´ve never felt inferior.. "

That sounds totally reasonable to me

"who want to have lots of free sex and are choosing to work fulltime whilst having chidren"

Oh my god that's me!!!

slug I'm not sure it's abdicating responsibility som much as a failing in the "movement" to keep pace with changes in perception of it's ideals.

...but there is no such thing as a feminist 'movement' accountable to real world changes. There never was. There were always massive differences between different types of feminist and different versions of what the problem was.

Neither is it OK to just invidivualize the issue, as Delia does 'well, I've never felt inferior'... to which we are supposed to conclude: yup, no problem there then.

I think feminism is a commitment to defend and uphold women's rights and needs. And those vary and change. But you still can't get away from the reality that women across the world face brutality and hardship just because they're women. And closer to home that women face real structural inequalities, just because they're women.

Whether or not individuals feel it really exists for them, or whether it matters to them, these things go on.

slug -don't be daft, of course I do. But that doesn't mean I identify with various things that are perceived to be 'feminist'. reading the wikipedia article linked above it seem a very grey area definition-wise. Some of the attitudes of people who profess themselves feminists certainly don't attract me.

The Delia comment quoted by GLaDOS seems entirely reasonable to me too.

invidivualize : I've made up a new word, I see.

individualize

Feminism has a different face today than it did in the 70s. That's not to say it doesn't exist. How long ago was it that sexual harassment at work was an every day occurance and there was no legal framework to address it? Definitly within your working lifetime. How about maternity leave? How about the right not to be sacked for being pregnant?

The problem is not so much that feminism is not still an active political force, but rather that Daily Moron attitudes are allowed to be the prevalent one. The media have managed succesfully portray feminists as hairly legged man haters because those who say "I'm not a feminist" have allowed them. Why are we not strong enough to stand up and say "This is what a feminist looks like and we are everywhere". Why must we be in thrall to the perception that only 'mad' or 'strident' women are feminists? What are we afraid of? That men won't like us any more? If you distance yourself from what feminism has done for you and continues to do for you, then you only perpetuate the image of feminism as some spent political force with no real relevance to our lives today. you become part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

a little too introspective for my liking.
it hasn't affected me personally, ergo i haven't been bothered to think about it.

within my working lifetime indeed. when i signed on for queen and country i had to sign a bit of paper saying that if i got married or pg i had to leave.
and i'm not that old.

I don't thnik that is true grendle. No-one discriminates against SAHM. They don't get paid less than SAHDs. They don't get sexually harrassed whilst at home because they are female. No-one tries to prevent you staying at home. You might feel that is the case but that is your perception.

Feminism still has many things to acheive.

feminist? ah, yes.

slug -I don't honestly know whether those things were an issue in my working lifetime. I joined the workforce in 2001. Maternity & pay leave certainly existed at that time, though it has been extended a lot since.

No person tries to prevent women staying at home as fulltime mothers, but the general economic expectations do. What about single mums, who are encouraged to attend back to work interviews? Why is mothering so undervalued now?

Btw, I'm definitely not a DM reader .

i'm only talking about ten years earlier lol.

Well, maybe I'm just a different generation then .

Delia is pretty damn good at stirring things up (geddit?) when she has a new book out.

However, intelligent, successful women that say they aren't feminists irritate the crap out of me. Yes you .

And yes, its based on a fear of being identified with one branch of feminism that died in the late 70's.

Ah Grendle, if you want to see what life without feminism is like (your generation or otherwise) just take a look at the valued and protected women of Afghanistan (allowed to vote and precious little else) and Saudi Arabia (allowed an education - to a point, but sweet F.A. apart from that).