to detest those who think they are superior beings because they were lucky enough to have a natural birth

[Reallytired]

My son was born naturally, but my second is currently stuck in a transverse position. I am trying everything to get bump to turn, but if it is not sucessful its looks like I will have to have a c-section. In many ways I feel disappointed if I have to have a c-section, but I will still feel proud of myself.

If you go into labour with a transverse lie then there is very little to you can do to deliver naturally. It does not matter how much whale music or however many doulas or independent midwives you employ. My waters broke at 36 weeks last time so this is why am a little concerned. The local hospital is not prepared to try and turn the baby before 38/39 weeks.

I know that it is possible to a have a vaginal breech birth, but with a transverse presentation, its just not going to happen.

I am still hoping bump will turn, but the experience is making realise that a lot in childbirth is complete and utter luck. You can try everything suggested on the internet, but there are times when the baby is stubborn.

as long as you and your baby are ok it doesn't really matter how it gets out!!

Oh, I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't undertake whatever classes/techniques they feel they need. I guess I just thought it would hurt a bit, and that it would be fine, and nothing to get stressed about it, and it was - I've got a pretty high pain threshold, I guess, and get way more stressed before scans anyway, because of our history.

I just want them to call it another name! And not assume it's necessary or desirable for everyone.

and there in lies the crux of the matter

as long as you and your baby are ok it doesn't really matter how it gets out!!

becasue for a lot of women, they are not ok

and if they say they are not ok, they are told that as long as the baby is ok, what does it matter how the baby arrived? it does matter, and so much of easing the pain for women, emoitionally, is to do with being prepared before birth and being supported during and afterwards...

there are no degrees of birth trauma , a fast vagianl brith can be as terrifying as a crash section if you are not supported, understanding what is happening, and being listened to

there are things you can do before and during birth to help prepare , but at some point you have to say there is a certain amount of luck involved, but you can try to direct that luck, as it were

but for some women, due to size/position of baby and size /shape of their pelvis, or a myriad of other reasons, the baby is not going to come out vaginally without a lot of help, or at all

but for the majortiy of women, i believe, the birth can and should be normal, not to say i dont; understand and applaud intervention where necessasry
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i think pain in labour is normal ! it is to be expected, embraced and welcomed.

morloth... but the pain didn't make the experiance a bad one for me. it wasn't something i got through and felt smug about, it was an intensly difficult experiance that made me feel the most profound joy i've ever felt in my life before the pain had even stopped. it was something i felt lucky to have experianced yes... but i certainly didn't think there was anything i did that made me more capable than another woman... my only advantage was educating myself as best i could about my options and even that wouldn't have secured me a natural birth if it turned out my pelvis was too small, baby was too big, baby was in serious distress, etc, etc.

thumbwitch has described the effect meditation has on pain better than me, i do think zoning out is the single most useful pain management technique available... i also however feel it is dangerous to allow women to believe that it's some sort of self induced analgesic and the pain will vanish... it doesn't, your awareness of the pain alters, instead of it being a frightening, dangerous sensation like you're used to experiancing pain as, it becomes a wonderful, productive and almost euphoric sensation that you willingly embrace. it still bloody hurts though and as you get to transition and you don't get much time to collect yourself between contractions it can start to overwhelm you... well in my case anyway as i tend to go from 4cm to crowning in just a few contractions.

i do think women should be told labour is painful.. very painful. because the fact that i was expecting pain meant it didn't frighten me and i was able to cope... if i'd been told 'birth can be painfree' then even the slightest twinge would have left me feeling useless and frightened because i'd presume i obviously wasn't doing it right.

I find it a shame that you're not allowed to say you've had a "good" birth without people jumping a mile. I have two friends who are pregnant with their third children and a group of us were chatting. The pregnant pair talked about how terrible giving birth was, how nobody enjoyed birth and how much they were dreading labour. When I said I'd had a great birth experience with my DS2 everyone reacted as if I'd shot somebody. Stunned silence. I hadn't even said I had a drug free home birth or it hadn't hurt (it had!), just that it was a great experience. I was just trying to add a note of positivity to the conversation. Hey ho, one lives and learns.

it's not that people can't talk about their "good birth" experiences, not as far as I'm concerned anyway.
I had a c-section; it wasn;t a bad birt experiece for me. It was necessary and it went well.
It's just the pitiful look I got after my c-section from some people who had natural births that pissed me off. And I guess that pisses other people off in a smiliar situation too.
I did not need or want pity. I had my beautiful little boy in my arms; that's all I needed or wanted.

'there are no degrees of birth trauma , a fast vagianl brith can be as terrifying as a crash section if you are not supported, understanding what is happening, and being listened to'

Yes. I was massively traumatised after my first birth- well the whole thing was a catastrophe from the hyperemsis to the pre-eclampsia mis diagnosed as anxiety to fitting and blue lighting across the county with cardiac monitors to be told A) nothing wrong go home in the morning followed by b not going home today, maybe a scan, then a note next day saying baby losing weight (about 1lb) in utero immediate induction (I was in shower so Dr left a note. Ta then ).
followed by lost bloods/ no anaesthetist for epidural or c-section etc etc and a 5lb baby at term.

Second birth OTOH was beutiful- long (OP) but relaxed, in a wonderful MW led unit with massages,aromatherapy etc.

The borths gopt better from there but the least painful was ds1's delivery (the most ds4's, very rapid on the carpetat home). It asn't the pain that bothered me... it was th total lack of confidence in the imbeciles care team,the knowledge that fate had taken the steps necesary to ewnsure our safety out of their ahnds by putting two women in need of same crash surgery team at once (and my MW being second to request)....

that was what I found traumatic.

Gateau are you sure it as pity? I certainly felt sorry for the women post c-section on my ward because they were in obvious pain / discmfort and needed more help: the only women I had pity for was the poor soul collecting her babies birth and death certificates together

But Gateau, I hadn't even said what my birth experience was before everybody acted all shocked. I just said one sentence. I have friends who have had good cs experiences too, and I had a ventouse birth first time. Like you, I would say "it was necessary and it went well", "it wasn't a bad experience" and, most importantly, "I had a beautiful little boy".

I am always overjoyed to hear that people had a positive birth experience. I've had one of each (a traumatic experience, a euphoric experience), so am in no way biased or have any 'issues', btw.

I do think that people who think they had a pain free birth because they willed it/'practiced' for months etc are very, very naive. Luck plays a huge part, and I think once you've had bad luck, you realise that!

I know a pitful look when I see one, Peachy. You may not respond in such a way, but believe me, lots of people do.

I loved my 2nd section@ThingOne! It was euphoric. I have banged on about it loads on MN. Usually, people love to point out that 'not all sections are so happy, iunfortunately'. True. But not all natural births are so happy, either (as I found out from the three women I shared a ward with, who all had the most horrendous birth injuries). Swings and roundabouts.

Anyway, I am going against what I said previously on this thread, which is that this should be a non-issue, really. Shouldn't it?

Can see where you're coming from, Mrsmattie.
The lead-up to my c-section was traumatic but it didn't affect me afterwards in any one way.
I guess everyone responds differently though. Someone else after a similiar expereice could have been traumatised for a logn time afterwards.