to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

[CT123]

I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

Can I just ask, how do you get hold of a radar key. Dd is sometimes wheelchair bound but does not receive DLA and is not registered disabled.

Thankfully dd is now on a good patch and able to use the non-disabled loos most of the time.

But I have been known to turn up with disabled dd and find that the only disabled toilet was already being used by a non-disabled person who had arrived before us but who then took their time. The difference between dd and anyone else was that she could not then queue for one of the other toilets instead. So she was substantially disadvantaged compared to any other person who turned up and found a queue. Also, because it takes longer for a disabled person to get onto the loo, they cannot afford to cut it so fine.

Thanks Fio.

Many loos are kept locked to prevent vandalism and misuse not just disabled ones. I suppose if you are disabled and you do not have a key, and you have to waste time and effort finding a member of staff to unlock the loo for you then it is equally as irritating as getting there and finding it engaged by an able bodied person. I hate it when my little boy needs to go to the loo in M&S or somewhere and he's bursting and you have to spend 10 mins finding someone to opne the flippin' door for you. Or worse still they don't have a loo for customers at all. So many big shops do not. Incidentally does anyone know what the stance is on shops who do not officially provide a customer loo where disabled people are concerned? Are they told that if you ask and you are disabled they must allow to use one? (don't worry - not thinking of pretending! Just wondered.)

I'd certainly join an MN campaign but how do you go about starting one? I have no idea. The furthest I've got so far is a plan to check out all the facilities in my local shopping centres and complain where appropriate. (Have enlisted dh's help for men's loos, btw. Have limits.)

I use them but most places I go that have them make it clear they are also for pushchair/baby changing use. I do scout about to check a disabled person isn't approaching. I wouldn't force myself in ahead of a wheelchair obviously but also have never seen them used by a disabled person so don't feel I am preventing anyone else using them - I'm only in there for a couple of minutes anyway.

Wow, this thread has made me feel really naive. I always assumed that disabled people would be understanding of the issues faced when the "normal" facilities are not accessable and so have always used the diabled loos if I can't get DS into a normal loo.
I now realise I have risked being told off for this and I have to say I am surprised. It seems somewhat mean-spirited and against the inclusive ideal that these facilities are provided to promote.
I don't see how a 2 minute pee can be compared with parking and leaving a car in a disabled parking space.

Statistically, it is likely that at least some of those disabled people are disabled with incontinence problems, Bubbaluv. Which puts them into a rather different category to the normal population queueing outside the standard loos. And I have known such 2 minute pees to be rather drawn-out.

Add to that they still have several minutes to hold on while they hoist themselves onto the disabled toilet. And that, as I said, many of them will have incontinence problems.

BTW, I was in C&W hospital yesterday for a scan and there are 2 disabled loos with changing facilities available, and BOTH of them had a sign stuck on the door saying "For female use ONLY"
DH changed DS for me just to be defiant of such a stupid rule.

Cory, I certainly would never use a disabled loo for any drawn-out procedures!
I would be interested to know how often the situation occurs where disabled people are left to wait outside the loo, as like many people have said, I have never seen a disabled loo in use by a disabled person (except when I used to volunteer at RDA).
The combination of the changeroom and diabled loos must be the biggest problem I would assume, rather than Mums popping in for a pee, as changing a wriggling toddler can take an eternity if they keep flipping over!

Unless you have a dedicated room for parent and child though, the changing table has to be in the disabled, as if you put it in the Ladies then a dad with a child wouldn't be able to use it.

It's so obvious that a separate facility is required!

bubbaluv - most antenatal loos are female only as they have domestic violence advice in them - attach this sticker to your chart if you want us to take you away from your partner for a private chat - that kind of thing. If they let the men in their then it defeats the object.

There are no stickers or brochures of any kind in these loos.

I am genuinely sorry to have caused outrage with my non-too eleoquent comments. I was trying to say the following things:

1. I have never used a disabled loo despite finding it hard to get my double pram into the loos. I only use them when that is where the nappy changing facilities are.
2. It's not OK to use them without having a disability or being the carer of someone who has a disability
3. I really really didn't try to compare having a big pushchair to being in a wheelchair or trying to push one, honestly. What I was trying to say is that pushing a wide pushchair has made me look at the world in a different way and begin to consider how hard it must be with the lack of access (when previously I had believed things were accessible)
4. I cannot begin to imagine what it is like to have a disabled child or to be a disabled parent - it must be incredibly tough
5. I find the them and us attitude on both sides depressing and I never meant to add to that. I just don't think it's constructive but I appreciate I don't have the full context
6. I do frequently find my life difficult. Not as difficult as it must be with a disability and I if I ever suggested anything so crass I am really sorry. However, this is the one thing I will stand by: I think it is OK for me to find things really hard at times. It has taken me about a year to admit that I struggle and that it's OK for me to find things so difficult each day so I am not going to back down on that.
7. I fully appreciate that however difficult I find things life is far far harder for others and I admire those people and think they are far stronger than I am. Yes, I know the don't have a choice. I also fully appreciate that the most difficult part of parenting my twins is behind me that for parents of disabled children things can often get harder and harder, especially as children get physically larger and heavier etc. Again, I admire you for how you cope. I hope that has cleared up where I stand but think it best if I sod off now....

Cory - you asked earlier about how to get a radar key. The simplest and easiest way is just to borrow one from someone you know who has one and get one cut somewhere.

bubbaluv - that's strange then, do they think that men can't be disabled?

I always thought that the sticker thing was a great idea - especially as a lot of abuse starts during pregnancy. I suppose I presumed that every hospital would do it.

apostrophe - I have bought a radar key as in Central London a large proportion of baby changers are in the disabled loo and lots of these are locked eg in railway stations

you can buy them online direct from radar

I'm not sure whether to be angry or laugh at Moondancer's suggestion. For anyone who hasn't seen a RADAR key they are enormous things, like something to unlock a castle door. I hardly think the local Timpson's is going to have anything suitable to copy it with.

Cory, have a look on your council website about getting a key. I know they are all different but ours had a number to ring. They sent me a form through the post and there was a section for my doctor to fill out detailing why the key would be useful to ds. I'm sure your doctor must be aware if your dd is a wheelchair user to it should be quite straightforward. HTH.

Pixel - cory can just order it online and pay the vat

people who want to just buy a Radar keey would you like one of these

hey - yes, Just like Andy in Little Britain! Excellent idea.

People who want to order a radar key why don't you get a sense of reality?

THESE KEYS ARE NOT FOR EVERY TOM DICK OR HARRIET WHO MAY WANT ONE, THEY ARE NOT MEANT FOR MOTHERS WHO CANNOT NEGOTIATE DOORWAYS OR CORNERS WITH THEIR PUSHCHAIRS,
THEY ARE MEANT FOR GENUINELY DISABLED PEOPLE WHO HAVE A RIGHT TO USE DISABLED TOILETS AND NOT JUST EXPECT TO BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CHILD.

rant over for now