to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

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I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

some disabled toilets are still signposted disabled toilets. those are the ones people are saying non-disabled people shouldn't use. if a toilet is signposted accessible toilet then you can use it whether disabled or using a pushchair.

Not read the whole thread but do not agree with seperate 'disabled toilets'. I feel that all public toilets should be accessible to everyone, i.e. large enough cubicles for men/women with buggies, wheelchairs etc and all people with mobility needs.

Generation gap - I think you are right.

YANBU however, with dd2 I have mastered the art of holding her while sitting on the loo with her on my lap if no disabled loo was available, because its less evil than putting her on the floor as she also eats everything on the floor

Don't think i've seen an accessible toilet- mind in SE Wales i don't think i've seen a public building designed since 1973 either!

generation you may be right as long as there are enough of them; if its the same number of toilets as there would have been cubicles you'll get the same issues with accessjust under thread titles like 'AIBU in 2009 thinking there should be somewhere for a 9 year old autistic kid to use a toilet in a hurry and ot queue?'

This thread is depressing on two counts and uplifting on another:
Depressing 1. That men with no children design toilets without giving a moment's thought to parents with tiny children
Depressing 2. That so many posters on here not only think they have a right to use disabled toilets when they and their children have no disabilities but that some will buy RADAR keys without guilt (disgraceful, oldraver)
Uplifting: that some who have read this thread have been educated by it (BlameitontheBogey etc).

DS1 (severely disabled, 12) shat his pants while waiting for a disabled loo which was occupied by non-disabled parent and child to become vacant. Wiping shit from pubic hair is no fun.
I never felt the need to use a disabled loo while DS2 was a baby. I seemed to remember that I managed somehow without leaving him outside. It was a bit of a struggle, but not as much as the shit/pubic hair combo.

I think YABU, and I'm annoyed at those poeple who say that as long as there's no-one else waiting, it's fine. There might not be anyone waiting on the occasion you did it, but if more and more able-bodied people deem this acceptable, then inevitably there are more and more disabled people waiting to use the toilet and many will be in a lot of discomfort. I have 2 ds, use a double buggy and am in town at least once a week with a double buggy. Have never used a disabled toilet, have never left them outside a cubicle. Wait til you get home or don't drink so much.

Easier said than done Jacwac when your bladder is compromised through being pg and youre still incontinent from having the last one!

Toddler wrestlers may not be disabled, but they are certainly incapacitated!.....

nappyaddict - I testdrove a tandem when pg but I just don't like them - find them really hard to push and they somehow feel unsafe IYSWIM. That could just have been the brands I tried though. I do have a mountain buggy (sold to us as fitting through 'most' doors - unfortunately not all doors hence getting stuck in ASDA baby change and having to kick my way out I also have 3 more pushchairs:lightweight double for travelling - just bought - and 2 singles for when someone else is with us so reluctant to buy any more as just don't know where we'd put them! I actually just avoid town centre type shopping on my own with DTs(supermarket fine as long as can find twin trolley) They've just turned one and I'm hoping they'll be walking really soon which will in most respects make my life a lot easier (am investing in reins)! My heart goes out to a lot of parents on this thread who struggle and cope so admirably with disabled children or with disabilities of their own. Tbh have found the first year of DTs life an enormous struggle and incredibly challenging. Don't flame me - I'm not saying having twins is like having a disabled child but that just some of the logistical issues have made me look at things in a new light and appreciate things more. Oh and I don't use disabled loos unless that's where the baby change is. Thank you for the tips on how to manage (am urging them to walk - putting one on floor no good as will crawl away but if she would stand next to me - strapped to me - that would be v useful)!!

Twinmam - can you get into the toilets with your lightweight side by side? They are usually quite a bit smaller than big 3 wheelers like the mountain buggy.

I can't really remember which ones my cousin had now but it seemed to push fine. Friends of mine have the P&T (which can also be used as a single so you would only need to buy 1 single) zoom, bebe confort twin and jane and they all push fine aswell but i understand they are more expensive than others (but cheaper than mountain buggy)

Oh and when the DTs got to crawling stage I would put them on the floor with reins on so I could slip them around my wrist and keep hold of them.

God I'm rabbiting on this morning... really good point generation gap. We really don't live in an accessible society at all do we? Also meant to say that the last time I took my DTs into town we'd just moved area and we went in search of the baby changing facilities. Followed the signs and discovered that they were in the disabled loo which is not uncommon BUT you had to have one of those keys to open it! This meant that the only baby changing facilities in the entire town were only accessible to people with radar keys which of course makes a mockery of the entire thing (totally agree with NOT having a radar key unless you are disabled or a carer for someone who is). A lovely gentleman saw me there looking obviously quite baffled (no staff around - a sign said ask a member of staff for a key but no indication of where said staff might be)and let me in with his key. In fact this has just reminded me that I was going to write a very strongly worded complaint letter about the stupid situation which actually does no one any favours be they disabled, parents or both. Sheer laziness and lack of empathy on part of town centre/ council/ whoever is responsible for these things.

too true. in fact instead of bickering about it on here we should be campaigning for better parent and child facilites. God knows, there are enough of us out there. In shops, we must make up a fair proportion of the customers.

Thanks nappyaddict and sorry for hijacking this into a what should I do with my twins thread Advice v much appreciated tho and as new lightweight double has arrived today (yay!) will be experimenting! Will also have to get dts used to their reins (makes em sound like puppies!) so good advice. Am actually more than happy to avoid my local town centre however and we're not sitting inside all day - we go out for walks and to clubs and things. Back to topic and sorry everyone.... What do you think of my local shopping centre putting only baby changing facilities in disabled loo only accessible by radar key? Should I complain? And if so to whom? I know they've only done it to stop drug addicts going in but it is also stopping parents and also might well tempt people into the 'I need a radar key' mentality...

You're so right redybrek. Same goes for better disabled facilities as think my double pushchair about same size as a wheelchair and it has become v clear to me how any wheelchair user would find going to most places extremely challenging (as opposed to the image I naively had of an accessible world) I read another thread on here about a bloke being refused access to the ladies loo in a restaurant - this was where the only baby changing facilities were located and his baby needed changing. That's pretty crap too IMO.

nappyaddict- obviously its fine if you choose to put your own child on a toilet floor, of course it's your choice, just find it odd you would put someone elses children on a toilet floor. I certainly wouldn't with my own or a friend or relatives child.

You have a rather extensive knowledge on double buggies. I have been scanning over a few recently and all the decent ones are silly money after spending, £500 on ds's travel sytem (which will get used again with knew baby) i cannot justify spending that much again on a tandem, besides ds will be two and mostly walking i wouldn't want to splash out again. I would rather get decent side by side than a substandard tandem. If anyone could point me in the direction (link please) of a decent tandem which doesn't cost the earth. It may eradicate my need to use easy access toilets. Not that i often use them as it is.

new not knew.

Riven- i dont think unisex toilets are the way forward to be honest.

Riven - calm down! Has anybody really suggested that it is harder being non-disabled than being disabled? I honestly don't know as haven't read entire thread I admit. I hope I'm not one of those that your sarcasm is directed at however. I agree - separate mens and womens loos is stupid and especially so if it takes up space that could be better used plus the whole assumption that it is only women who will need to change nappies. The simple fact is that all parents whether they or their children are disabled or not need somewhere to change their baby's/ babies' nappies. It is OK for people to want that. It is not OK for them to use the facilities that are intended for other use particularly if that makes things even harder for someone else. I can't use the bus as I am unable to hold both my babies at once and fold up my pushchair. That is a simple fact of my life as a mother of multiples. That does not mean I think that I have a disability and I never intended to suggest that it did. Life IS a struggle for me at times. It is for many parents of twins. It is for many parents of singletons. I am sure it is even moreso for you with your own disabilities and those of your children and I am sorry for that. But it is not a competition and your bitterness against 'non-disableds' is perhaps understandable but not necessary - we are all allowed to find it difficult sometimes.

"difficult sometimes"
try my shoes, every journey out with dd is difficult(13 years and counting) want to try it....
it is not her cp that causes her problems, but other peoples attitudes.

I have had a wee in a public toilet with the door open and the buggy in front of me on many occasions. I don't think that's a problem and it means not using the disabled toilet. I would be mortified if a disabled person had to wait to use the loo because I was in there with my pushchair.

YABU

Bristols - can i ask if you've ever changed a tampon like that? I can't work out if it would be do-able. I always end up traipsing around for a baby changing room so i can do mine.

Ok, but it does come across as bitterness and an attack on 'non-disableds'... I can see what you're saying, honestly, but I just find this increasing nastiness and sense of 'us' and 'them' on both 'sides' really depressing. It really feels like so many of us (and I include myself in that as I know I often focus just on the difficulties I have personally as a twin mum, have a 'here are my problems and sod everyone else kind of attitude') Sorry, that's a lot of inverted commas but I hope you can SWIM... everyone on here is a parent. Clearly facilities are not acceptable and those for disabled people even less so. Everyone has struggled with this at times, some more than others. So, maybe stop all the bickering, don't use disabled facilities unless you a) have a disability or a child with one or b) that is where the babychange is located, and start complaining to shopping centres, restaurants etc etc until things start to change in a way that would benefit everyone. Or is that just too Pollyanna ish for a Friday morning? Must have taken some happy pills - not like me at all. Am going to write letter of complaint to my shopping centre about stupid babychange in disabled loo that needs radar key situation....