4-year old excluded of Reception class for biting 3 weeks after starting school... Anyone experienced the same???

[brette]

Hello,

My son is 4 and started reception 3 weeks ago after 12 months in nursery. In nursery, he had trouble settling in but after a while and a lot of patience and encouragement from the dedicated staff, settled in very nicely... with the occasional to frequent bitings. Never in a "malicious" offensive way, more as a "defence"/compulsive/impulsive way when his space is being invaded. Very hard and stressdul for everyone involved (the bitten, the biter, all parents...) But they got it under control after a lot of praising and generally speaking a gentle and psychological approach. He still has to be assessed to see if there's anything related to sensorial issues. He's the youngest of the class, loves school and is extremely bright.
An Early Intervention team got involved, he was observed, the conclusion was there wasn't anything "wrong" with him, many reports were written and before he went to Reception, we had a meeting with the new school child therapist, the Early Year Intervention team therapist, the nursery staff, etc... so that the transition to school would be smooth.

First day at school, the headteacher tells me: "I understand your son has special needs" ...
Second day at school, the teacher tells me: "He bit a child today, is it something he's done before?" I told her nicely to read the report we had taken so much time to make specially for her...
Two weeks later, he bit a child and the child bled. Very shocking and inacceptable. The head called me and asked me to collect him to "punish" him and as he was a danger to other kids. On collecting him, I saw the child therapist of the school who admitted they hadn't been any communication of reports between the nursery and the school. That she had just spoken to the nursery therapist and that she had a better picture of the situation. I said I was surprised they didn't get any of the reports since their whole point was to avoid this very confusion...
And now all the head is telling me is "This behaviour has to stop..." Err, we all agree on that, if we knew how to, we would...

Anyone has experienced something similar?

Sorry very long post, but I feel let down and angry by the whole situation.

Dandylion
Maybe you can share what worked for you and your dd

Brette...there are people here trying to help.I understand your frustration ... (and it's a tough thread !)...but don't miss the opportunity

sorry i may have missed it...but have you made an appointment to go through the reports with his new teacher and senco?...and is your ds definitely going to be assessed?

i aggree in that in things coming to head as they have it should mean that things should start moving with getting the right help for your boy now.

Chipping in- This is a thread in AIBU. Read the advice that you may get views that you don't agree with.
Lovely of you to get so angry on Brette's behalf but I think you are coming across as quite rude

I think that both Brette and her son are being unfairly treated on MN.

She has mentioned that English is not her first language, presumably that is why she used the word "excluded" in her OP when she meant that he was sent home from school for a day.

She has stated several times that she has made it clear to her son that biting is not acceptable.

She has conferred with the nursery many times and tried to relay the information to the school. The school have been remiss in not working well with the nursery and SENCO etc to help resolve the biting issue.

Brette
There have been some good tips on this thread. Take them and try them out, perhaps there is something there that will help your son.

FWIW, if the school system in the UK persists in starting formal schooling at such a young age then problems such as this are goign to occur. My DD went to kindergarten in Germany at 3yo and there was a boy in her class who was a biter. We worked together with the kindergarten to resolve the problems that the boy had. Even though DD was bitten several times, once hard enough to draw blood, I NEVER blamed the boy and certainly not his parents. It was obvious that they were trying their hardest to resolve the issues. What good would it have done for me to go in guns blazing.

I think sending a 4 year old home for a bite is OTT. I think a school can come up with a better way to deal with it, both for the bitter and for the bittee.
4 yrs old are still very young and they can be intellectually advanced, but often not emotionally ready for school (and often the opposite!).
At this age they are still learning to control their emotions (and yes, it is our job to try to teach our dc how to deal with them), and I wouldn't class biting as a non normal thing to do for a 4 yr old.

By the way and again, thanks for all of you showing support and understanding. CHpipingIn I like your style ;)

Tomorrow we'll go and speak to the bitten's parents together with my DH. To show we do care. Cos we do. And before it all turns out very ugly... And adults and children end up biting each other to blood at the school gates with (And don't accuse me of taking matters lightly because I make a little joke. Please don't.)

Totally agree with Mme Lindt last paragraph.

Ds was bitten in reception by another little boy when we were still living in the UK, but these thing happen among very young children.

I must say, the bitten must've been pretty determined not to let go to be bitten so hard blood was drawn! You know your son is wrong, but in my opinion the bitten isn't entirely blameless.
If my kid got bitten the first thing I'd ask is "what did you do first?" then I'd get them a tetanus shot!!!!

No, I won't, I don't "name and shame" on threads, or anywhere else. It's rude and pointless.

ANd I'm with the poster who said that if they will insist on starting children who may only be 6 months out of nappies into formal education, of COURSE they are going to get immature behavior. There can be huge variances in maturity amongst 4 year olds, some are little preteens, some are large clever toddlers.

Ruffallo - are you actually reading any of the posts???????

By ChippingIn on Sun 08-Feb-09 11:21:20
Brette has already said she didn't intend to post it in AIBU but in behaviour - she did not come here for a roasting, nor to be told his behaviour is unacceptable (she bloody well knows that), she came here for help...

Brette - I hope it goes well for you tomorrow, let us know x

Dandylioness
You wrote

And to be fair, her OP was misleading. She says that her child has been excluded but he was simply sent home early one afternoon. He was then clearly allowed back into the school - so the 'exclusion' incident is in the past. And I don't think it's ricidulous at all for a child who's just started reception to be sent home early on a day when he's hurt another child and is obviously having difficulties settling in.

I have been living abroad for a long time and have never had a child in school in UK so perhaps it is me who misunderstood. I understood that the child had been suspended for several days and thought that you were referring to that in your above post.

That was why I thought that the OP might have said exclusion when her DS got sent home for the afternoon.

Fwiw, I still do not see that it was the appropriate response from the school.

Chipping in- what's worse I wonder, not having time to read all the posts or telling other posters to fuck off?
I wouldn't try to take the moral high ground here if I were you

DandyLioness PLease do not think on my behalf. Thanks for praising my command of English, but in French we say "exclu", hence the confusion. It was a wrong choice of words, the whole UK school system is pretty new for me and I am a bit confused with the different terms used to qualify everything. Pardon my French...

i agree with franca and having been through the exact same situation as you brette (though no exclusion) i can understand how rotten it makes you feel.

my son is now 7 and he has grown out of that behaviour (though he is still a little aggressive). it is frustration, of course not all four year olds are the same and the assumption that it's rare is not very helpful to parents who experience it with their own child.

Ruffallo - There isn't anything wrong with not having the time to read all the posts, it only becomes wrong when you make judgements based on half the information.

If you only have the time to give everyone the benefit of your opinion without actually caring what has already been said/explained.... as I said I think your time could be better spent elsewhere.

Fair enough, mrsRuffalo, but as someone who hasn't told you to fuck off, can I just point out that it really doesn't help either the OP or the discussion in general if you come in repeatedly criticising the OP for not doing something that if you had bothered to read the posts you would know that she had in fact done? It is just muddying the waters.

She has told her son that it is wrong to bite. Repeatedly. She now needs some more on-the-spot backing-up from the school.

My own experience of school situations would suggest that the following is needed:

the OP to speak to each of the involved adults (teacher, SENCO, head) herself (and make sure the dinner ladies are informed too), to make sure that everyone is aware that her ds needs an extra eye; don't ever expect things to trickle down- they don't, or else they get misunderstood in the retelling (Chinese whispers)

the teacher to have a chat with the other children to make sure they do not wind the ds up

an agreed system of intervention
(in our school this would be loss of playtime or suspension)

this intervention is to aim at two things: to make the offender feel his offense and to make any victim feel safe

the OP to support this system

the school to inform the OP when there is a problem

a system of encouraging and praising the ds when he gets things right

a system for the ds to make up for biting, maybe with a handwritten letter/drawing apologising to the victim

Thanks for your opinion.
And the time you spent telling me to fuck off this thread?
Very constructive obviously
As all of your posts have been

So you all read every post on every thread you post on ?
Wow!
I am in awe of your speedy reading skills-and all the time you have
Lots of people just answer the OP- happens a lot

But then I guess if I had agreed with you all and still not read all the posts I guess that would have been okay

Thanks Cory for some very useful ideas.

Ruffallo Yes I do actually read all the posts on a thread - I think it's rude to post without having done so - if you haven't it's polite to make that disclaimer (if you did, I don't remember and do apologise).

I don't care whether you agree with me or not.

However, I do care when people come on here and ask for help, bother to answer rude questions politely, answer all the posts and still have to defend themselves against people like you who can't be bothered to get themselves informed before storming in to tell them how terrible their child is and how useless they are....

I said neither of those things ChppingIn, but if you have deicided to have it in for me then that's fine
I explained I hadn't read the whole thread and have been told to f off for that reason, so you are confusing me now

Very sorry to hear this, brette. I feel there are very few situations where it's appropriate to exclude a 4 year old. For one thing, I just don't think most 4 year olds would really connect the exclusion with their behaviour so it's just not an effective way of solving the problem. It's possible that they are trying to appease the other parent, imo. I think it's well out of order that they hadn't read the reports from nursery too. Really hope they'll put some proper support in place for your son asap.

Everyone overreacts to biting, imo. Thinks it indicates that kids are savages and are very worried about what the bitten child's parents will make of the bite mark because it looks shocking. My pint sized 9 year old son recently solved a playground fighting culture problem (which is an unfortunate reality in his school due to poor supervision in the playground) by biting the strangling arm of another boy in order to get him to desist his strangling. I thought this was a fantastic riposte. The other kid (who'd started it by jumping on my son and strangling him, egged on by other children) ran away yelping, son- who is knee high to a grasshopper and would have had no chance if he'd gone the traditional route of hitting, kicking etc (pulverisation) or running to the teacher (ridicule)- was victorious having had one of the shortest fights in history. Incident over, honour satisfied all round.

Then some interfering eejit of an adult noticed bite mark on other boy's arm and instituted inquiries and my son was blamed completely for the incident even though no one disputed that the bitten strangling child was the instigator of the fight and that in fact neither boy was particularly aggressive or known for fighting and the whole incident had happened because strangling boy had reluctantly responded to peer pressure. The teacher concerned seemed genuinely shocked and horrified at my boy for biting (couldn't he have pushed or hit instead? she asked) and at me for supporting him (I don't know as I didn't see the incident and, incidently, neither did you or any of your staff, I replied). They insisted on punishing him and not the other boy on no good grounds that I could see, so I concluded it was because they were worried about the other parent's possible reaction to the bite mark. Teacher who dealt with the incident still won't smile properly at me. I notice!

See how histrionic parents get about biting? Now imagine being the school or nursery head having to deal with that.

Truth be told, I don't anyone could really be 'horrified' by a little kid biting. They just think they should be because it's the required response. It's ridiculous and completely disproportionate. And the 'early years experts' don't help by sticking their oars in (they're so over the top about everything, that their 'advice' needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt).

Has no one got any common sense anymore?

So after all your helpful and less helpful advice, (but thanks for all of them, very educating anyway), we will:
Go and see the bitten's parents.
Ask tomorrow for a meeting with the head, the teacher and SENCO asap.
I will phone the EYIT to get advice.
He will be assessed in March for possible sensory issues
We will continue to work on "words" with our son.
The nursery has reduced dramatically the problem, now it is back to square one, and that's very painful to see. Also I don't think expecting a 4 year-old coming straight from nursey to fall into a very structured school routine within 2 weeks. I agree with MmeLindt about formal education. Serioulsy considering alternative schooling...