to wish people wouldn't tell women who are ttc to "relax and it might happen naturally/I know so many people who gave up and then fell pregnant"?

[wannaBe]

Because if it really was that simple then there would be no infertility treatment/no need to spend years and years trying for a baby you cannot have.

I do realize that people are trying to be helpful.

But I do also think that it gives a lot of false hope to people where there is none.

Because while there are of course women who forget about ttc and end up falling pregnant naturally, there are a lot more who don't.

It took me six years to conceive my first child so I have been there, was looking at fertility treatment when I fell pregnant. All I can recall of that time of my life was that I absolutely and utterly did not want to talk about it, I didn't want people asking me why I hadn't had any kids yet etc. I can tho understand the relax and it will happen advice from a sympathetic point of view, it's gentle and not tehcnical from someone who probably has not been there but is close enough to you to know you are ttc.

Appropriate response is "Sorry to hear about your problems, I hope things work out for you"

I hated family weddings/parties while we were TTCing, and when I had 2 mmcs. The comments, "So, when will we be hearing the pitterpatter of tiny feet... don't leave it too long now, you are not getting any younger..." before we let people know about the miscarriages.

Then "It will happen someday... you just need to relax... my friends aunts budgie had 15 mc and then adopted and got pregnant right away... it is just one of those things... just natures way..."

The worst thing that anyone ever said to me was when we were talking about sex ed in schools and my DH said that his parents had never talked to him about sex. My ex-SIL said, "No wonder you don't have children". This was a week after my second mc.

LEM, that's exactly how I feel about my m/cs - they were babies I lost. I imagined what they would look like, how their voices would sound, who they would take after, what their talents would be. I lived their lives in my imagination while I was pg with them and grieved their deaths when I lost them. To be asked if they were real children or to be told that they must have been 'defective' was so cruel.

If you don't know what to say, say nothing. Offer tea. I drunk a lot of tea .

Having said that, I know not everyone feels like that after m/c - it's very personal. We named our babies and mark their losses each year, this isn't for everyone.

From experience, the best thing to hear is "I'm so sorry. That must be so hard". The end. No platitudes, no spurious advice, however well-meaning the intentions.

The chances are they've tried everything already to get pregnant: Sex, handstands, Natural Solutions, invasive tests and procedures, sacrist candles in empty catholic churches, wish cards tucked deep in coat pockets, 'relaxing holidays'. I tried them all and didn't get pregnant and the advice to relax from people who conceived the first month of trying was like being cut through the stomach. As was being told that sometimes "Nature knew best" as if Darwin was tossing a mental thumbs down at us from his fossiled grave.

Biology is subtle and slight and it doesn't take much to knock it off kilter. The once-fertile can become sub fertile and vice versa and there is no guaranteed way to influence it. My once-fertile husband was injured in a cycling accident (bike between the legs, head against a car windscreen) and so produces around 90-99% abnormal sperm with poor motility; barring a miracle he can't get me pregnant, although a brief but miscarried pregnancy post birth (the most stressful time of my life as it happens) offers us a tantalising glimpse of what might have been.

Fertility and infertility in the end comes down to luck and biology and there's something incredibly painful about that; but for the slightness of chance and biology I could be a mother.

I got my babies in the end, but it took a round of bells-and-whistles IVF to get them. And whilst I have my babies and my heart is healed I can still remember the cut of those 'well meaning words'. Relax; it's not meant to be; it's
God's way; have you tried going on holiday; in my day we didn't need IVF, people just had babies or got on with it.

Say how sorry you are and leave it at that. Or sit for a moment and think how you're REALLY feel if you were sat in an IVF waiting room and someone had just told you that you can't have children naturally. Watch your husband put his head in his hands because it's "his fault" and then see how 'try to relax' sounds. It's ashes in the mouth and in the heart.

For all of you going through it, I'm so sorry. I remember and know how hard it is.

Kitstwins

well said kw

the implication i take (rightly or wrongly) is 'oh you silly neurotic woman it is all your own fault if only you were as wonderfully relaxed and fecund and me',

kitstwins, I'm so sorry you have been through this. But can I just say that that was one of the most eloquent and well reasoned posts I have ever read on mumsnet. So glad you have your family now.

Fantastic post, Kitstwins. I am glad that things worked out for you and your husband.

What a great thread and one i can totally relate to. After 5 years tcc i have lost count of the comments along this vein that i have had and every time i smile sweetly and pretend they have not hurt me to the core when i really want to scream in their face to shut up.

I had 2 cycles of icsi and conceived on my second cycle only to miscarry - my "friend" who conceived both her children on the first months commented "why are you so upset it was really only a fertalised egg not a baby". WTF!!! No honey it was my baby, 6 weeks of hellish ivf and all my dreams coming true just to be shattered not to ention £3000 gone.

Then i was lucky enough to get my gorgeous son through fet only to then be told by another friend that i should go back to the ivf clinic and get myself a girl!!!!! Yes I will just pop back and take a look in the catalogue and that will be it!!! aghhhhhh.

Then there is the "now you have been pregnant once you will conceive no problem" - yes because i have had icsi and had my embryo surgically placed in my womb its now going to mean my husband will suddenly be full of working sperm!

You can see this is an emotive topic for me.I agree with the comments of just say "that must be tough for you, am here if you ever want to talk". I understand people just dont know what to say and why should they they have not been through the agony that is being infertile.

For all those women with fertility problems i send you each a huge hug!! Bit soppy for mn i know but you deserve it xxx

I ask forgiveness to all ttc mum I might have upsetted by saying something daft on the lines of OP. I did not realise how upsetting it could be but I will never ever ever say something like that again!

totalchaos - again this is a different topic (more different than your example) but your post reminded me of how I felt when diagnosed with MS. a guy who I thought of as a bit of a blunderer and generally insensitive, although a good friend in other ways, told me he didn't know what to say. that's all. and it was enough. it was just an acknowledgement that something shit was going on - and that he couldn;t advise me or pretend to know how I felt. It still makes my eyes prick nearly 10 years later - and it taught me the importance of this sort of support. no need for content - just a wee sign of heartfelt support.

gorionne - you are hereby forgiven (KC flicks some diet cooke in her direction in the absence of any holy water)

I think I actually hated more the people who used it as an excuse to trot out their woes - ususally about how messy their child is and what a trial it is .

Yes thanks for that, that's what I call a high quality problem.

My favorite comment was the week before travlling to meet DS for the first time and a supposedly close friend said to me with a very doubtful expression...

"Oh you tried so hard for long to become a mother, I do hope you'll be OK. I mean, it is quite hard work you know"

[patronising git emoticon]

Can I offload another gem: DW of friend (3 kids, all conceived after a month of trying, one an 'accident' on the pill) - "oh, I had some bleeding with Dc2 and thought I was going to mc". After my third mc.

Same couple emailed all our group to tell us that she was pg for third time, ooh what an accident, aren't we super fertile 5 days after mc2. Which they knew about. Email to work address. Sobbed at desk

The other one that made my teeth curl was "Oooo!, we conceived in our first month of trying - DH must be doing something right eh?" nudge nudge, wink wink. Like fertility has anything to do with the couples' sex life in 99.99% of cases. So not only are infertile because I'm too neurotic to conceive, my DH is crap in bed too.

Ditto MrsTittleMouse. Or when they smugly announce "we're obviously REALLY fertile" with a bit of self-pleased eye-rolling at their immense phsyical superiority. As if you're just not trying hard enough or your husband is really sh*t in bed.

Best/Worst was a friend's husband who walked through the door at a friends party with his 12 week's pregnant wife and jokingly yelled "stand back ladies or I might just get you pregnant". Felt like shouting "Good luck, f*ckwit" but instead stood in frozen misery next to other friend who's first IVF cycle had just (to knowledge of all friends there) failed and shoulder-to-shoulder with my husband. A nice tableau of pain we made.

Even now I want to punch him for being such a tw*t. He knew two girls in that room were trying and failing to have babies and yet that was his contribution. Moron! He's probably got a gold cast of his balls on his mantelpiece with the legend 'stud' etched on it.

God I'm bitter!

I was told by a friend who got pg twice easily that my blocked tubes could be seen as a 'mixed blessing' cos at least, once I'd had my family (which of course was a foregone conclusion with IVF's 100% success rate ) I wouldn't need to worry about contraception!

FFS - hey, girls, go and get your tubes blocked, it's soooo much less stressful than taking the pill!

If this thread has educated dozens of people in what not to say to the infertile/sub-fertile then it has done a wonderful job.

And kitstwins, your post was wonderful. Thank you.

WannaBe I'm guilty of this

But miscarriage is obviously different than not being able to conceive as the woman is conceiving but not keeping babies

Actually having read some of the comments these 'friends' have come out with, I'm not surprised the thread title comment would be considered offending!!!
Good grief, I was a basket case when trying to conceive (this is just me not anyone else obviously)comments like these would have driven me completely off the edge. Thank god my friends were sensitive, I did get the don't try advice, but I think my friend was trying to be helpful and felt my desperation and pain a little, and I think she felt utterly helpless in the face of my pain and was graspiung at whatever she could think of to comfort me....

Hi

Am new to AIBU but had to had my 2 penneths lol.

I have been TTC over 5 years now and have finally run through the mill of tests and crap and have been given clomid.

But anyway I totally agree with what's been said. I have found it more upsetting when a member of my family actually said 'Oh I'm so sorry, I only had to look at a penis and I was pg'. I could feel the tears sting.
Also there's the 'Oh well at least you already have kids' Yes but that doens't mean I don't desperately want another.
Then the classic the last time I saw the cons in December 08. 'It takes some couples longet than others to conceive'. I nealry spluttered on my answer of 'Yes but 5 years is ridiculous'

Sorry I have rambled a bit there but it really does get my goat because I feel like there's no one in RL I can talk to without the sympathetic yet upsetting comments.

Kitstwins, fabulous post. Thanks for sharing.

I'm surprised that even after what everyone has written on this thread, STILL there are ppeople coming on here & saying 'it's the holiday that got them pregnant' or 'they got pregnant once they stopped trying'. Can I just ask, have you heard of the word coincidence girls? Also, perhaps it might occur to you that not all fertility problems are created equal? I.e. I don't care how many holidays you go on, I don't care how much you give up (whatever the hell that means), if there is no sperm there or if there are blocked tubes you can try & try & try (or stop trying ) all you want... it won't get you anywhere. And by the way, infertility is still the great unknown, there are many problems that we don't know yet, and IVF / ICSI seems to solve. Why? We don't always know. But those procedures sure do work for many many people (and they're sure not relaxed or on any holiday when doing IVF, believe me).

Oh and by the way. To the poster who said 'it does happen'. Yes I suppose pigs fly too. Perhaps you can offer that little gem about holidays / giving up to a cancer patient? maybe that'll cure his / her cancer too? Or maybe it's just nature's way and they shouldn't even bother with treatment? (sorry, I really get annoyed with the holiday / giving up / adoption platitutes... there's even one such thing in the Sex & the city movie- do you remember?)

Maria2007, the problem is that "relax/adopt/holiday" and get pg line is used in loads of tv/film dramas - drives me insane!

Don't you find IVF relaxing? I do - almost like a holiday IMO, in fact, maybe that's why I got pg during my IVF cycle cos it was so relaxing!

Oooh, don't get me started. Oh, I have...

Quick history: ttc four years, four miscarriages, three of them after 10 weeks, then 18 months before conceiving this miraculous pregnancy age 42. I will never forget some of the things people said:

1 After MMC number two, at 13 weeks, smug male friend said "Oh, we did that Zita West diet beforehand to make sure that didn't happen"

2 After being turned down for adoption last year, and trying to come to terms with never having children, I was also looking for a new job. A 'friend', who knew about our troubles', sent an email saying 'you can be our nanny if you like', with a scan pic attached. After two MMCs, they aren't funny.

3 Oh, and countless 'just relax' bits of bollocks. The one that really annoys me, like so many of you, is the 'it just wasn't meant to be'. Or 'things happen for a reason'. No. They. Don't. Things happen, or don't, and life goes on, and something else happens. There is no such thing as fate, or destiny. There is just luck.

Great post, kitstwins.

I think sometimes people just need something to say, because they feel awkward.

I noticed this a lot in the 15 years dh and I were married before we had ds. We were not ttc - we were told we had no chance naturally and decided not to go the assisted conception route, so I was perfectly OK with the whole issue.

But occasionally we got tired of people asking when we would have kids and we'd answer 'Never - we can't' to shut them up. You could see people floundering for something to say, and they almost inevitably came out with something inappropriate. As I was not emotionally vulnerable, I just found it amusing, but if I had felt otherwise it could have been awful.

Fwiw, I think sometimes the whole 'relax and it will happen' thing does happen for a very simple reason: time. Even if the probability of you getting pregnant in a particular month is minuscule (or 'effectively zero' as we were told) if you cumulate it over enough months it can become large enough to happen by chance. And if you are relaxed and not thinking about it, you don't feel the months as much.

But perhaps that's just me and the bias of my experience.