to wish people wouldn't tell women who are ttc to "relax and it might happen naturally/I know so many people who gave up and then fell pregnant"?

[wannaBe]

Because if it really was that simple then there would be no infertility treatment/no need to spend years and years trying for a baby you cannot have.

I do realize that people are trying to be helpful.

But I do also think that it gives a lot of false hope to people where there is none.

Because while there are of course women who forget about ttc and end up falling pregnant naturally, there are a lot more who don't.

kerrymumbles, please dont apologise. i swear my rant was not aimed at you or anyone on here who has advised/chatted/helped me during my mn life. its the rl people who get me down. the ones who actually see me withtears in my eyes and still ramble on.

annie, im shocked and horrified. thats terrible!!

Oh boy, I've had something similar from my lovely Mum (before we realised that we had problems) - "I'd have gone insane if I hadn't been able to have children" - unspoken subtext "but you haven't gone insane, therefore you can't care that much".

I dread to think what she's said to infertile couples over the years. I have been careful to remind her that we didn't go public with our struggles and that there are probably lots of people that she knows that secretly are going through infertility, but it doesn't seem to make much impact.

OH GOD! I said exactly this to a lovely mnetter on a thread the other day . Now i realise how thoughtless it was of me. Im very very sorry to whoever it was. Those words were said with the best intention, but now i can see it was a dumbass thing to say.

I do think there is a certain element of truth in it, as happily i do know of a couple who gave up on ivf got a dog, and became pregnant But thats just one couple isn't it and they were very lucky.

I guess im just fecking incompetent when it comes to trying to comfort someone, you feel like you have to say something - the trouble is, you never ever know the right thing to say and feel you should say SOMETHING. But just maybe saying nothing and just listening is the best route. Thankyou for this thread - it will certainly make me think in future.

LEM slaps herself around the head with wet salmon - AGAIN

spongebrain, you make a good point there too - one I have often wondered about. A friend of mine m/c at seven weeks over christmas - I can't imagine her pain, and she is in a terrible state bless her. I can only assume it is a very real greif, as i know it would be for me I sadly think that many people just assume people are upset because they didn't get to have a baby - but i think its deeper than that, they did have a baby, but it died

Sorry again for your loss.

By Maria2007 on Mon 02-Feb-09 18:00:38
2shoes- I don't buy it that those who say this are trying to be nice, sorry. Honestly, I can't see how an incredibly thoughtless, insensitive comment (especially when it comes from those who conceived easily) can ever be seen as being 'nice'...

You are right, i stand corrected, I read a post comparing it to mindless crap you get said to you when you have a sn child, put that way I see it now, and will make sure I never use that kind of crap.

LEM I know you are just trying to say something comforting and nice but I had to pick you up on this

"I do think there is a certain element of truth in it, as happily i do know of a couple who gave up on ivf got a dog, and became pregnant But thats just one couple isn't it and they were very lucky."

That doesn't make it a certain element of truth. It makes it a coincidence. Which happens but for a minority of people.

Sorry to be picky, especially when you were recognising it isn't helpful to say...

fair point bellboy. Not picky at all

yanbu. I know a lot of people who have conceived naturally after giving up on IVF - or just plain giving up and, in the right circs (ie when not in the company of someone ttc) I'll happily tell very happy stories to that effect. (I'm one, my neice is another) but, as someone lucky enough to have concieved easily I wouldn't dream of telling someone ttc to relax. I wouldn;t dream of telling them to do anything at all. i just wouldn't presume to know anything at about how it feels to be them. and, tbh, I'd credit them with having considered all the options - including the giving up and relaxing one. if I want to be supportive to someone ttc I'll listen, and I might ask them what kind of support they would like. I'll avoid giving advice. Listening is about all I'm qualified to do.

LEM - I have been told that's what's comforting is to share the sorrow/anger that the ttc-er feels, rather than trying to solve it with suggestions.

That's why responding with a genuine 'I'm so sorry' (or if you know them well, 'It's so fucking unfair'!) is the most appropriate thing to say, and lets them know you are a good person to open up to further, if that's what they want.

So don't feel useless!

Actually, I think that this is one of MNs great strengths. I could never tell anyone in RL how hurtful some of the comments are, as they are genuine mistakes, but they still hurt. This is a great way to get the word out about what is and isn't the right response to infertility.

As another example - it's only luck that had prevented me from saying "as long as it's healthy" about a pregnancy. Now that I read MN I know that that kind of comment could be very hurtful to someone who's DB wasn't healthy, but is still very much loved. I'm glad that I learned from here, and not by hurting someone in RL.

LEM - I know it's not quite the same - but going back to my experience with DS and his SN - I have a lovely friend who never tried to "advise" me - just saying quite honestly that she didn't really know what to say, but it sounded worrying for me. And that was great - to sound corny - sometimes it can be a great gift to someone - making them feel their feelings are legitimate, that you aren't just being neurotic or hysterical. So I agree with hatwoman.

On a bit of a roll here () - one thing that I found difficult was that I didn't want to force our infertility down anyone's throats, but that I did want to talk about it. So it was nice when people asked questions about it. As long as they accepted if it was a bad time to talk, of course, and allowed me to change the subject.

for me the worst bit is the information you are ttc is normally winkled out of you. and the the nosey parker proceeds to lecture you with the same shite you have heard a thousand times before. honestly if you have been ttc for several years i think i can safely say i tried every fecking thing i can think of and no i don't think relaxing or taking some homeopathic shite is going to change my biology and fix me.

i think a simple 'so sorry to hear that do you you want to talk about it' suffices.

well I've been ttc for nearly 4 years now although not actively so for about two years (since diagnosis of problems) and during that time I have:

got a dog
A budgie
A parrot
and a rabbit.

So where are the quads?

Surely if the holiday thing really worked for a majority (rather than the often quoted minority) then the NHS would save itself a fortune by doing away with hugely expensive IVF treatment etc and just prescribing a week away on the costa whatsit. Funny that they don't do this....

yes I think there is money to be made here. In fact I think I said so on a thread some years back - my concept will be called conception holidays.

"satisfaction guaranteed. At least if you don't conceive you'll have had time to have lots of sex."

and if you really want a double dose of irritation - wait until IVF fails, start adotpion proceedings then sit back and wait for the "Ohh you're bound to get pregnant now".

If you need to relax in order to TTC I highlyu recommend punching well intentioned people like that on the nose, Makes me feel hugely uplifted

Correct reponses to such situations (unless you are very close to the person).

"Oh I'm sorry to hear that" close mouth, end of comment.

I think there is also a generally accepted thing that we seek fertility treatment too early and now fertility experts say you should wait two years (unless age is agaist you).

Many people who "relax" aren't magically overcoming infertility, they are just conceiveing when they would have anyway - relaxed or not.

Haven't not used contraception for about 15 years and had 8 cycles of IUI with drug induced cycels and then 3 IVF. I would have been pretty bloody pissed off to get pregnant during the adoption process.

The conception holiday idea. Several friends of ours tried that, but it didn't work. Thing is, that I'm not going to go around telling everyone that am I?

I can personally vouch that I was a lot more stressed having fertility treatment, than I was when we first started TTC naturally and I was excited about the new stage in my life. But funnily enough, it was the treatment that worked. Who'd have thought it?

What exactly is one supposed to say in such circumstances tho. I'd think people are trying to be sympathetic and supportive, and trying not to be invasive and nosey.

If you say nothing, you're wrong, if you start drawing diagrams on napkins to instruct people well thats plain wrong (and insane), if you say something soothing that's wrong too.

What's the right thing to say in such circumstances? I'm genuinely curious here.

fuzzy - general consensus here is "I'm sorry", followed by a "that's so shitty" if you know them well, and possibly a "do you want to talk about?" or a gentle question followed by a swift change of subject if they don't want to discuss it.

Basically an acknowledgement of how awful it is, and usually a kind listening ear.