to tell ds to hit this little boy back??

[Nemoandthefishes]

little boy in ds class has been badly bullying one of ds friends for the last couple of months. However today he decided to punch ds in the stomach and then told him not to tell, so ds didnt until he punched him in the stomach again at which point he told the teacher whose answer was 'oh just ignore him'. So I have told ds if the little boy punches him again to hit him back usually I wouldnt have said this but ds has already been through a bullying incident since sept and only just got it sorted about 2 weeks ago.

it is upto the parents yes but its a staggered thing- you might not expect the same of a 4 year old as a ten year old perhaps?

I agree peachy, but telling a child to hit back is teaching neither of them things, actually teaching the opposite IMO

Well you'relecturing the wrong eprson,as you'll see further down I would never tellme child to hit anyone - indeed i'vepretty much broken myself on anti-aggression measures.

I'mjust saying, when understanding behaviours, we need to tlook at the age as part of it

But if you teach your child self-restraint and others have not yet got it (at say 5), what then? What happens when it becomes apparent that no amount of adult intervention is actually going to solve the problem because the consequences for the agressor are meaningless or not associated with his action?

Sorry peachy.

I dont know Goosy and TBH dd is only 15 months so I've not been in that position yet. All I know is that I think saying 'hit em back' and I hope its not something I ever resort to.

We''ll talk when they are 15

'so you should allow yourself to be bullied'

You need to read my posts. I have never suggested this at all.

Bullies need sorting. Most bullies are victims of bullying themselves. Many are from abusive families or have emotional and behavioural disorders. Hitting is very clearly not going to solve their problems, in fact, it's going to encourage them to see it as natural to use violence to express yourself.

I'm struggling to see why you're not getting the importance of breaking the cycle of violence instead of perpetuating violence and conflict.

Dp is a deputy head in a school for kids with EBD and spends a vast amount of time working with children on exactly this.

'You fight back and they leave you alone.' Riven, your understanding of bullying sounds like it has come straight out of some sort of 1930s boys' adventure book where naughty Henry is taught a jolly good lesson and never bothers the good boys again.

This is not typical. In fact in all my years and dps' years of teaching we've never seen it happen.

I have seen many, many cases where A hits B, B hits back and there's a full on fight. But also lots of cases where A hits B because of some (perceived) bad treatment.
You really want to spend some time dealing with this kind of stuff 'But miss, he was dissing me so I ....' especially where it's clear the parents have egged the kids on in the first place!

Goosey, what I'm saying, is that it is our job as adults to behave like adults and to teach children how to deal with their emotions and conflict responsibly and, where they can't to step in to protect them. Because at some point your little darling will find that he or she can't punch somebody who is giving him a hard time!

yeah, tell him to hit the boy back, then the boy will hit him back fo hitting him back...

full on brawl...

don't be so silly, grow a pair and speak to the teachers

'you might not expect the same of a 4 year old as a ten year old perhaps? '

But actually I say the same thing to the 4 year old as the 10 year old. We don't hit.

Nobody has answered my question yet. If you are prepared to tell your child to hit back another child (about whom presumsably you know nothing in terms of their background or SN) do you say the same thing to your own children if it is their siblings who are hitting them?

No? Why not?

don't pull the sn card
That is crap, the incidents I talked about I know there was no sn involved....

"dont pull the sn card"

oh get over yerself, she has a point, how does the child not kow whether or not another child has sn?

pull yer head out yer arse

I will when you have>

tis too late for that, has been stuck up there far to long

oh well, I would put the kettle on(as I know how you have your tea, but you won't be able to drink it.

Now, now children, no fighting

So you're able to diagnose whether a child has SN and what sort of family background they have through what your dc tells you about them? Impressive.

Can I just point out that in the case of the OP not only are we not talking about a life and death situation which would necessitate self defense we are also talking about a 'LITTLE boy'.

And yet, some of you are seriously suggesting, the right thing to do is to hit back?

Nobody has answered my earlier questions still.

So once again, is this what you tell your own kids to do in your own house when its their siblings that hit them?

And if another child was copying your child's homework would you tell your child to copy his or hers back?

And has it not occurred to you that even if you have no objection on principle to your child hitting back it is quite likely that the bully is picking on your child because he is weaker than himself? So perhaps your child doesn't have much of a chance of hitting the bully back? Not to mention the sort of pressure you're putting on your child to prove himself.

fivecandles ds went to a small primary, so yes I knew who had sn and who didn't.
It is hardly rocket science, when you live in the sn world.

Oh, forgive me 2shoes, I didn't realize that you had access to the confidential records of the children at your dcs' school

And I might also remind you that this thread is not about YOU but about the OP (who does not indicate that she knows anything about the child involved).

Actually, as I'm sure you know, there are many SN which are invisible and certainly you can't know the ins and outs of the home lives of every child.

I teach a great many students whose peers (and their parents!) have no idea they have an SN and know nothing about their family background. One who springs to mind has semantic pragmatic disorder. There's no reason for her peers to know this. She does well academically but she does have problems integrating socially. Likewise I teach a girl from a very abusive family who has been through a succession of foster carers.

riven, sod it you know what we should do..
when anyone bukkies one of our kids, we just run them over with the wheechair...job done

fivecandles sorry mistake I thought it was your thread.

'if the school wont do anything and the bully's parents wont do anything, what is left?'

Well, I have answered this question numerous times. You go to the Head and if that doesn't work you go to the Governors with the support of other parents. You go to the papers and your MP if necessary. As a last resort if I personally felt that the school wasn't taking my concerns seriously I really wouldn't want them to be in that school anyway and I'd whip them straight out. I would absolutely not stoop to the same level as the bullies or advise my kids to do that either.

'Course I wouldn't tell siblings to hit because as a parent I would intervene and put a stop to any nastiness.'

Exactly. You wouldn't want a fight in your own house and you care about both kids. Strangely enough teachers don't want a fight in their schools and care about ALL the kids too. It's their job and your job to intervene at school too.

BTW, don't for a second think I'm not taking bullying seriously. I absolutely am and do. I'd be straight down to the school if I thought it was going on. And touch wood it hasn't so far to my kids.

I actually work at 6th form level so bullying (of a physical kind) is mercifully rare. TBH any sort of violence is taken really seriously and almost certainly anyone involved would be immediately expelled. We have to be incredibly on the case because we live in an area with high racial tension which can easily escalate.

But bullying and fighting is everyday for dp who works in a school for EBD. Many of the kids there have very disrupted and sometimes abusive family backgrounds. They have not been able to cope in mainstream schools often because they could not express themselves in any way other than through violence and disruption. The school works incredibly hard on social skills and anger and conflict management as you would expect. They also have to do a lot of work with parents (many of whom have no clue how to parent and turn to the school in despair.)

I imagine most of you have no hitting as a blanket rule in your own houses whoever starts the conflict. You want your kids to find different ways of sorting their problems or better still not have the problems in the first place. Don't get why you think different rules apply in school. Is it because you don't have to deal with the ensuing mess?