so am I...or were they...or was I in the first place...??!!

[misspollysdolly]

I'm annoyed with myself that this is bothering me, but I can't quite get my head around who is being the more unreasonable...me or the 'unnamed, concerned' person...?

Here's the story, on a Friday I have a Toddler/baby music class that I do with the DSs which finishes at 3:30, giving me only a little bit of time to drive across town to pick up DD from school. So I arrive at school with only a few minutes to spare and miraculously there is a space just about as close to school as you can get (although the car is out of sight once you are in the playground waiting). Anyway, DS1 comes in with me, but I opted to leave DS2 (1 year) in his seat in the car. Though it through, surmised I would only be a matter of minutes and as he was happy playing with some toy or other I'd just nip in for DD and out again. Which I did. DS2 fine and danay as we arrived back to the car and off we go home.

On Monday DD's Headteacher rang DH to report that a concern had been raised by another parent that I had left the baby in the car. No particualr point to her phonecall...she just wanted me to be aware that concerns were being expressed by others.

Now I feel and also a bit as I feel I am being judged and judged to have been irresponsible at that, even though I don't really think I was. I normally arrive at school with masses of time to spare as I get so stressed finding somewhere to park, so obviously then , both boys come with me and we all wait in the playground for ages(!). I wouldn't ever leave either of them in the car unless it was a for a very short period of time, that I felt I had a good reason, was relatively nearby and was confident (as you can ever be...) that they were safe.

So am I being unreasonable to have left him in the car in the first place...?

Is the 'unnamed concerned' unreasonable to have commented to the Headteacher...?

AIBU to feel so affronted...?

With a 12mo, if they decide to have a cry I don't necessarily rush immediately to their side.

The OP was 2 mins - has no-one ever left their 12mo in their cot crying for 2 mins?

I do think that the risk assessment is all off here. It's an emotional response (understandably) rather than a logical one. There are much more risky things that 12mo do every day than being left in a locked car in a school car park for 2 mins.

Am that anyone would want to prosecute someone for this.

agree completely YANBU

nosey judgy sods, different if the wee one was crying their eyes out locked in a car in blazing sunshine and there had been nobody at it for 10mins

some people just can't mind their own fecking business

I don't think YABU, although I have never done it myself.

It is just one of those things that people are going to disagree on. Quite a few parents leave babies in the car while they go into my kids' school. There are loads of parents walking up and down the road so it is unlikely that a child is going to be abducted from a locked car.

I think the head probably phoned you because she wanted you to know another parent has considered it an issue. I doubt the school thinks anything of it, as they will be dealing with all manner of parents moaning about each other/the school/ other kids to deal with. It will all be forgotten about by next week.

YANBU

I take the LO (21 months) in most of the time - simply because she enjoys it. However, if it's raining or she is asleep I don't, I say to her just taking 'Big Sister' into the classroom back in a minute and she waits as happy as Larry. If she wakes up she is happy waiting - she is a very happy secure child who knows I will be right back.

We park in a school carpark and I am not the only one to do this. I would be very PO if some busy body thought it their place to ring the school about it. (As someone else said, if I'd been gone 10 mins in the blazing sun, completely different story though).

Have to agree with all the posters asking why this is so terrible that it's akin to child abuse??

LITTLE MADELINE: leave him in the car at the petrol station once in a blue moon (DS usually fills my car up for me). And I very, very occasionally leave both of them (DS & DD who is 5) in the car together while I pop into the local shop, but never the baby on his own.

Umm - I'm confused. Why would you happily leave a 5 year old who is more able to get out of a carseat and do something dangerous but not a 1 year old? Unless you have the sort of 1 year old child who would scream if left alone but not if left with an older sibling - but then this isn't about whether it's a safe thing to do but about whether your child is happy to be left isn't it??

Another poster said 'You were silly to leave the child in the car without being in sight, but I am sure you know that now.'

Poster - Could you be anymore condescending? Having your own opinion as to whether it is a wise thing to do or not is one thing but there is no need to be so condescending?

Thank goodness there are still people in this world who will look out for other people's children

It's a pity those people don't think before charging in - this child did not need 'looking out for' his capeable mother was doing her job just fine thanks very much! How about using their large noses and excess concern on children that actually NEED it (think Baby P etc).

Weetimourousdizzybeastie - LOL - couldn't agree more!

What would you do if you walked passed a car with a baby in it on its own, on a busy road, and no sign of a parent anywhere to be seen? Would you just think "none of my business" and walk on by, or would you make some attempt to make sure that the baby was in fact ok?

I don't think it has anything to do with the concerned person judging your parenting and everything to do with being concerned about the welfare of a baby. Or should everyone mind their own business and not care about the welfare of other people's children?

What would you have done if the teacher had called you over for a chat when you picked your child up, and you had to wait 5 mins while the other kids were sorted out, and then another 5 mins for the chat, and you'd already been waiting a couple of minutes, then there would have been another couple of minutes to get back to the car. It's surprisingly easy for a couple of minutes to turn into 10 or more.

yanbu

dangfando -- if it was a school pick up time, and there were many people about, I would assume that a busy and late mum had had to rush into school and didn't want to wake her baby up and would be out in a minute

if i was that worried i would wait near the car
but then i might get reported by the unnamed busybody for loitering with intent to kidnap a baby i suppose

unless she decided to hover too and watch me
then somebody else could report us both

the head would never be off the phone the next day

stuffit

Good god you're a paranoid lot! What if? what if? what if? I would hate to live such a fearful life.

FWIW I leave DD1 (11mo) alone in the car twice a week, when I pick DD1 up from pre-school. DD2 always falls asleep in the car on the way, so I leave her in the car park while I collect DD1. OK, so it's a quiet car park not a road, but I think absolutely nothing of it. If she wakes up and cries (which happens once in a blue moon), it won't do her any lasting harm - it's only 2 minutes. Rather that than waking her up and having a crabby baby all afternoon for 2 days a week. I've left her crying in her cot for longer if she happens to start crying when I'm in the loo or something. And I certainly don't believe there are baby-snatchers around every corner looking for unattended babies in cars. Though I suppose it depends a lot on what sort of area you live in.

Annie loving your post until the end.

There aren't baby snatchers around every corner no matter what sort of area you live in!

I wonder if this fear has filtered from areas in america or somewhere car-jacking is a lot more common.

Have we all been watching too much CSI???

Tumtum - I don't mean there are more baby-snatcher in some areas than others - I just mean that in some places there can be quite a lot of petty crime with yoofs up to no good all over the place, and people might be more fearful in general than if they live in a crime-free area.

I can't decide if you are BU or NBU - I am not sure that all the scaremongering is helpful - like others have said - what are the chances really?!

But then there is a little voice of fear that demands I consider the possibility that it MIGHT happen - and how would I feel if it happened to me or mine?....

Alot of people went mad at the McCanns for leaving madeline alone......

FWIW - I would never leave my 5 year old in the car - wouldn't trust him not to try and drive it away little beggar! But 12 months old is a different one - especially if they've fallen asleep....or its chucking it down.

I've had people comment that I TOOK my LOs out of the car in -7 degree weather - that it was mean to take them out in the cold like that.....um how else would i pick up their sister?......and how many other people would slate me if I'd left them warm and dry in the car?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't

I think more fearful is the key here annie.

We are all more fearful, while the risks haven't changed, and have in some things got less.

The problem is that once the majority of people are paranoid, everyone else has to join in really, unless they are strong enough to face up to all the fearful people every single time they do something which they see as dangerous.

"Are you mad doing that she could easily be abducted" must be tiring to argue against all the time.

The end result is that we are all worried all the time, and can't do things even when our instincts tell us they are fine, it's so sad.

I've often left one baby in the car whilst running into school to get siblings and no strangulation with the seat belt/runaway cars/aliens/lurking paedophiles as yet.

I think it's more of a question of what might happen to you rather than the baby.

I would worry about the baby being distressed.

It would be sods law that the day you want to pick your DC up quickly is the day they can't find their coat and are last out and the teacher wants to talk to you about something that takes ages. At least that is always my experience.

Too many things that might delay you on a school pick up

I think OP was unsure abotu whether it was right thing or not- took a risk, with careful consideration - it wasn't an ideal scenario but I think safer to leave child in car for two minutes than try and abstract child from car on busy road.

I did similar on Friday - left ds2 asleep in car, parked just outside school on unbusy, quiet road - because he was asleep and I didn't want to wake him.

I stood by the car for a few minutes until I really had to go and grab ds1, ran and got him, ran back, all the time terrified in case ds2 had woken up and cried (he's 19mo) and when we got back my old HV was walking past the car but didn't seem to notice baby
He was still asleep, but I was lucky and did not feel it was something I would want to do again. I hate not being able to see him - really hate it especially as it took me about 3 minutes, not 2, and there was nothing I could do to get abck quicker. Anything could have happened, I could have been knocked out or something, nobody would have known there was a baby in the car.

The person reporting you probably has no idea how long you'd left your child unattended in the car for. If it had been your childminder who had done this, I suspect you'd like to be told.

Personally, I wouldn't leave a 1 yr old in a car where I coudn't see them.

Yes the teacher could talk to you, yes other parents could talk to you, yes you could stop to smell the roses... but you don't you say 'Sorry can't stop today 'baby' is in the car - I'll see you in the morning OK? If not I'll just go and get 'baby''.

Someone could hit the car - someone could hit you as you lift the baby out of the car.

Someone could steal the car - someone could get in the car with you at a set of lights.

Dangfando - no I wouldn't, I would look in on the child on my way back to my car as well and again once my two were buckled in, then if the baby was crying I would faff and fiddle in my car until the parent came back just to make sure it wasn't too long, however, you soon get to know the parents around the school and know the tot will be there 5 mins.

Can we just remind ourselves that we are dealing with school pick up's (& drop off's) not the weekly supermarket shopping. I would not leave either one of them in the car to 'pop' into a supermarket (newsagents, pay for petrol - yes).

Chippingin - DD is 5 and knows not to get out of the car, even if someone else tells her to get out. She's sensible. And I did say it was only very, very occasionally.

It's not about whether my child is happy to be left, it's about safety, which is why I don't do it that often.

For the record, nobody at the school my DD attends leaves ther kids in the car while they take older siblings to school, it's not the norm here and I am damn sure I would get reported to the head if I tried it. We live in a village in a rural area, so generally safer than most areas too. There have been times when I've left the pram etc at home and had to carry him all the way from the car with a terrible back but I never thought of leaving him.

Just as a note - I have a friend who found it totally acceptable to leave her twin babies in the car at the supermarket while she did a week's shop, because she parked on the edge of the carpark therefore it was safer. How does this differ really? If you say it's because in this case the child was left for a few minutes it's tosh - it doesn't matter how long you leave them, it's asking for trouble for 30 mins o7 5, in my opinion.

LM

In your own home you would not leave a baby to cry for 30 mins, but you might leave them to cry for 5 while you prepared food for a toddler, for example. It is the same with a car.

There is not realistically any more danger in leaving a baby in a car than there is in taking them out for 5 mins. There is a realistic danger that a baby left alone ignored in a car or a cot for 30 mins could suffer a great deal of emotional distress.

"What would you do if you walked passed a car with a baby in it on its own, on a busy road, and no sign of a parent anywhere to be seen? Would you just think "none of my business" and walk on by, or would you make some attempt to make sure that the baby was in fact ok?"

But they didn't did they, nobody at the time was worried enough to think the baby was enough danger to stand next to the car until the OP came out and then maybe tell her what they thought of leaving it.
The reporter was sneaky and asked around who's car it was and then left it to the headmistress to "tell off" the OP.
As I said earlier, this happens in schools, a lot.
I know a woman who's child threw stones at her because she didn't want to leave, the woman smacked the child on the legs for it and was report to SS.
It really is a case of best behaviour at school for the parents anyway.

RIGHT THAT'S IT

all of those who said YANBU, pass me your phone numbers this instant - am off to grass you up to the head

List as follows

1. tumtumtetum

Lol Weeti and I take your point, sorrento - very true!

Have read this thread with interest since starting it this morning. Lots of interesting opinions, so have appreciated hearing what you all (?most of you?!) think! (Usually am scare shitless by AIBU threads so don't usually stray in here tbh!!)

I think the major difference of opinion is concerned with perceived and actual risk and the 'what if' and the 'you'll never know' is central to the difference ways we see this situation.

Part of my thinking in choosing to leave him in the car was having to positively tell myself that he was HIGHLY unlikely to be abducted (car locked, and frankly just highly unlikely) and also pretty unlikely to be hit by another car (the only incident I have ever known on the stretch of road that I mentioned was someone's door being wrenched back by a passing bedford-type van while they were strapping their child in on the back drivers side).

Although I am a worrier by nature, and am inclined always to see the worst case scenario if I allow myself, I have been trying for the past year or so to be a little less uptight, to rationalise my worries and to accept that we do not live in a world where risks will inevitably become a reality. There are not paedophile's on every corner, most other drivers drive relatively carefully most of the time, there are not very many episodes of 'drive-offs', less so involving innocent infant passnegers (to my mind this would be more likley at a petrol station actually...?)and a petty theif is more likely to grab a jacket, bag or stack of CDs from my passenger seat than my baby.

My position is generally that I am determined not to live by the fear of the 'what ifs' in life. Just got to start on my fear of the 'what will other people think' now...