to think that picking a child up when a dog walks past is only going to reinforce that child's fear of dogs?

[wannaBe]

On way home from school this morning a woman and her child were coming towards me. As soon as the child saw the dog she started to wimper, she didn't scream, or become histerical, she opened her mouth and said she didn't want to pass the dog. Her mother picked her up, and proceeded to carry her, by now perfectly happy, until we passed, at which point she put her down again.

Now, I realize that some children are afraid of dogs for whatever reason. But the reality is that dogs are a part of life, and pandering too that fear to the enxtent that the child doesn't have to walk past the dog is surely not going to help? And is only going to reinforce the child's belief that all dogs are scary and to be feared.

If it was a bounding, snrrling, barking boisteress dog I could perhaps understand it, but it wasn't.

Oh and for a long time she would go hysterical if she had to pass a dog. We have walked alternate routes before now to avoid passing a dog that she spotted in the distance. Pandering to her, I suppose. Tsk.

of course there are levels of fear.

Because sometimes fear has a basis, i.e. if you've had a bad experience with a dog then that will of course set the foundation for that fear. But sometimes the fear is irational.

To use myself as an example - I am afraid of flying. It is an irational fear. It has no basis - I haven't had a traumatic experience in an aeroplane, I do know someone who was tragically killed in a plane crash but I was afraid of flying long before then. So what are my options. I can refuse to face that fear, or I can learn to live with it and see the world. And I absolutely refuse to project that fear on to my ds - in fact it's since my ds was born that I have been much calmer re flying - because I've had to be, because I don't want him to grow up as frightened as I was for most of my life, every time I had to fly (and I had to fly, backwards and forwards to boarding school eight times a year, so I had no choice even though I was scared).

Sometimes children have to be faced with dogs. If your child was at my child's preschool/in his class/in his school my dog would be in the playground/in the classroom on a regular basis. And all he does is stand and wait with me for ds, or lie under the table while I read with the children I come in to help out. It wouldn't be reasonable to ask for my dog to not be there purely because a child was afraid of it. So surely it would be better for the child to try to overcome the fear rather than to be faced with it on a daily basis?

But you haven't be asked not to bring your dog in. So what is the problem?

But even with irrational fears and trying to get over them, the best way to deal with them isn't necessarily to force someone to do something when they're terrified every time they meet that particular thing.

You can help a child to take themselves a little closer each time to gradually get over an irrational fear, in a controlled way, or you can simply refuse to help them when they're scared and thinki 'sink or swim' is the best way to deal with it. The second way is just not the best way to deal with an irrational fear.

Refusing to pick up a scared child is not going to help them - they'll then end up remembering that encounter with a dog as a scary episode (because their fear will dominate their experience), when otherwise they might remember that they passed a dog and the dog did nothing scary.

TBH I would think it was better that the dog had to leave the classrom than one/some of the children?

I don't think fear of flying is irrational either - it is fundamentally a weird thing to do - you are in a situation where you are not in control hurtling along miles in the air. Most people are at leat a little apprehensive of flying IME. Certainly whenever there is turbulance people go rather quiet.

An irrational fear is surely a fear of something which can't hurt you - spiders (in UK), the earlier mentioned buttons and cotton wool and car aerials (one of my friends). They are irrational fears.

Juule, thats just it - they saw my dogs every day, and could see (after months!!!) that they were gentle. Eventually the mum got bored, and the boy was able to stroke them .

I don't let my kids approach dogs that are tied up, or unless the owner is there.

My dd was frightened of dogs (when she was about 2) and part of the solution was to get a dog . Brilliant campaigning on my part.

If I see someone is scared of my dogs, I tend to just walk quickly past - I hope that if they have lots of non encounters then their fear will ease.

BTW, I was attcked by an alsation when I was 7, and I was petrified for years of big dogs. The only thing that really cured my fear was getting my dogs, and understanding dogs a bit better.

i've had the same advice on another thread purpleduck. that getting a dog could cure my sons phobia. it sounds quite hopeful! trying to convince son is another matter atm.

no, I was using it as a hypothetical. i.e. while you could pick up the child and remove it from the situation if you were there, there may be instances when the child might be in the same place as a dog when you are not there, or when you're not even aware it's going to happen.

I know of times when police have been into schools with dogs (sniffer dogs not attack dogs ), I have been into a preschool and into school to talk about guide dogs, most schools have similar type talks afaik, I go into class three mornings a week to support children's reading, I am on the PTA and help out at the school discos (dog attends all of these). I have encountered children who have been a bit afraid of the dog and haven't wanted to stroke him if offered but have been totally fine as he has just been lying on the floor and there was never any need for the children to approach him.

But I would say that if there was a child who was so afraid of a dog that he/she couldn't be in the same room as the dog, it would be somewhat unreasonable to request the dog not be there, should all the other children miss out on learning about these dogs purely because of the fear of one child? Or should they refuse the support which they so desparately need because of the fears of one child?

Southeast I have seen a lot of children overcome their fear of dogs because of my dogs.

When I first started going to toddler groups my first dog was still working. There were quite a few children who were quite scared of her, this was most apparent while we were queuing to go in as they would be in quite close proximity to her. Once we were in she would just lie down and children would approach her and stroke her and she got lots of attention. And gradually I think all of the children who were scared of her approached her, and were quite happy to be near her and wanting to give her attention within a matter of a couple of sessions at the group. She was quiet, placid, not at all boisteress, so a perfect dog to get to know iyswim.

Last year I started going into my ds' class to help out and again there was one boy who was quite wary of my dog (old dog has since retired and I have new dog). Within a couple of times of me going there he actively wanted to sit next to my dog, and one day I saw his mother in the playground and she told me that since my dog had been coming into class he is far better around other dogs.

Which is why I do think it is generall better to face the fear than to keep it going iyswim.

I have 3 cats and sometimes I have people coming around my house who don't like cats or are scared of them. I don't assume they have parents I can blame, I just put my cats away and I always check with people that they are ok with cats coming up to them.

I think you can live a happy and meaningful life without much contact with cats, so it must be a dig-owner thing to be so concerned about how others react to their dog. Keep the dog to yourself and its not an issue.

So why does no-one ever go on to the arachnophobes' threads and tell them that as there are so many spiders in the world that perhaps they should just get out there and buy themselves a pet tarantula or something?

Sorry but you'll never get me to agree that forcing a terrified child to go near an animal is the right way to go. And I say that as someone who loves dogs.

I'm with you coppertop. And I speak as a dog owner.

actually, i do think wannabe is making an interesting point.

but I don't know what the solution would be if it were dd1's school that wannabe was going into with her dog.

playgrounds I can get around - come a bit earlier/later, stand at opposite ends.

but it would serve no purpose whatsoever to have dd1 confronted with a dog in her classroom.

lol coppertop.

I think the fundamental issue with getting a dog to overcome a fear is that if the child is unable to overcome their fear, then you are faced with a dog that you potentially have to rehome, and that isn't fair on the other children (if there are any) or the dog. So perhaps the better way to go would be to befriend someone who has a placid dog and gradually increase the contact - you don't have to force children to stroke a dog they don't want to stroke for instance. Often if children show fear of my dog I have made him lie down and asked if they would like to stroke him. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't but they will almost always have a good look at him rather than running away.

Silverfrog when I met up with jimjams in October she said she didn't know how her ds1 would react to my dog as he had a fur phobia. He loved my dog.

god, riven, I'd have gone spare.

We are going on holiday at easter with my pil. They are bringing their dogs , on the proviso they stay outside at all times when dd1 is around.

Can't see it happening, tbh, but then again, will just give me an excuse to say lots of things to them that I've been bottling up for years...

But seriously, I don't get why people are so fanatical about ensuring she comes inot contact with dogs to get over her fear.

She will. But in her own time. Confronting her when she is not prepared for it is only going to make her worse

fourteen dogs?

we have a dog, wannabe.

It's the unpredictability o movement that geets dd1, I think. She has realised that she cannot control dogs.

We are slowly working with her. She is now happy to be in the conservatory with the dog on the otyher side of the glass, and is also happy to see me & dh with the dog.

She is not too bad when out and about (depending on yappiness/bouncinees of dog) and has once or twice walked nicely past dogs in parks.

part of our plan is to get dd2 involved more, as when she sees that dd2 can control the dog (she is very obedient) then she might come around a bit more too.

It has been a long road, though, and as you say, it is a situation that is not fair on anyone.

we came very close to rehoming our dog at one point, but we couldn't find anyone to take her on (she is a Rottie) and didn't want her to just go to a rescue centre (not a good rescue rte for Rotties where we were)

sorry for all the typos - you must get some interesting interpretations at times, wannabe

With the classroom situation I wonder if it would be less scary for a frightened child to go into the room once the dog was already inside and settled? It might seem less threatening to them than being in a room themselves and having a dog come in and making them feel as though they (the child) can't escape.

Ds2 and dd would probably bite my arm off themselves if they though it would get them a dog. Unfortunately I don't think a dog would get the time and attention it deserved if it lived with us.

silverfrog but obv the difference in your situation is that you already had a dog, so it's not as simple as just rehoming it as it's a part of the family already. Whereas someone getting a dog to cure their child's fears must surely do so in the knowledge that it might not work out and the dog would then have to be rehomed, which is not a good basis for getting a dog IMO.

I'm scared of flying dogs.

not read thread at all, but according to the title, I would say unless the dog in question has three heads or is rabid and looks agressive, YES pikcing the child up to walk past IS going to reinforce their fear